Re: [Sat] Starting SATP Terminology draft

[Venkatraman Ramakrishna <[e-mail]>]

Yes, we should not use a term that excludes digital/virtual currency (and more generally, any fungible token). Moving digital currency across ledgers is a prominent motivating use case for SATP.

Rama

From: Alexandru Chiriac <[e-mail]>
Sent: 21 March 2023 19:13
To: Thomas Hardjono <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; Denis Avrilionis <denis=[e-mail]>; Venkatraman Ramakrishna <[e-mail]>
Cc: Tecnico Lisboa <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Sat] Starting SATP Terminology draft

I agree with using the term "digital asset" consistently rather than interchanging it with "asset". My only concern here would be for "digital assets" that are a representation of a "physical asset" as
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I agree with using the term "digital asset" consistently rather than interchanging it with "asset". My only concern here would be for "digital assets" that are a representation of a "physical asset" as well.

As to using "virtual asset", I prefer the term "digital asset" because I don't think we are aiming to limit SATP to explicitly not include digital currencies, such as CBDC.

Kind regards,
Alex
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From: Thomas Hardjono <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: 21 March 2023 12:58
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Denis Avrilionis <denis=[e-mail]<mailto:denis=[e-mail]>>; Venkatraman Ramakrishna <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: Tecnico Lisboa <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Alexandru Chiriac <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: [Sat] Starting SATP Terminology draft

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Any definition is going to be complex because the real-world meaning of "asset" is quite broad.  Perhaps we should just keep it simple (i.e. "digital asset") and use those 2 words consistently in our drafts to avoid confusion (per Rafael's email).


For those interested, FATF uses the term "virtual asset" instead of "digital asset".   See (c) below.

Here is what FATF says in their current Recommendations doc (p.135):


(a) Funds:
The term funds refers to assets of every kind, whether corporeal or incorporeal, tangible or intangible, movable or immovable, however acquired, and legal documents or instruments in any form, including electronic or digital, evidencing title to, or interest in, such assets.


(b) Funds or other assets:
The term funds or other assets means any assets, including, but not limited to, financial assets, economic resources (including oil and other natural resources), property of every kind, whether tangible or intangible, movable or immovable, however acquired, and legal documents or instruments in any form, including electronic or digital, evidencing title to, or interest in, such funds or other assets, including, but not limited to, bank credits, travellers cheques, bank cheques, money orders, shares, securities, bonds, drafts, or letters of credit, and any interest, dividends or other income on or value accruing from or generated by such funds or other assets, and any other assets which potentially may be used to obtain funds, goods or services.

(c) Virtual Asset:
A virtual asset is a digital representation of value that can be digitally traded, or transferred, and can be used for payment or investment purposes. Virtual assets do not include digital representations of fiat currencies, securities and other financial assets that FATF Recommendations.


(d) VASPs
Virtual asset service provider means any natural or legal person who is not covered elsewhere under the Recommendations, and as a business conducts one or more of the following activities or operations for or on behalf of another natural or legal person:
i. exchange between virtual assets and fiat currencies;
ii. exchange between one or more forms of virtual assets;
iii. transfer of virtual assets;
iv. safekeeping and/or administration of virtual assets or instruments
enabling control over virtual assets; and
v. participation in and provision of financial services related to an issuer’s offer and/or sale of a virtual asset.



--thomas


________________________________________
From: sat [[e-mail]] on behalf of wanzerbusi=[e-mail]<mailto:wanzerbusi=[e-mail]> [wanzerbusi=[e-mail]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2023 4:29 AM
To: Denis Avrilionis; Venkatraman Ramakrishna
Cc: Tecnico Lisboa; Thomas Hardjono; Alexandru Chiriac; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Sat] Starting SATP Terminology draft

ladies and gentlemen
Let me just say one thing.
Isn't there a difference in the meaning of "Asset" here, which is tied to some tangible or intangible value? Please let me check.
A worthless "asset", I think, has no reason for existence.

Best Regards.
Shinji Sato,

> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Denis Avrilionis" <denis=[e-mail]<mailto:denis=[e-mail]>>
> To: "Venkatraman Ramakrishna" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: "Tecnico Lisboa" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; "Thomas Hardjono" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; "Alexandru Chiriac" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Date: 2023/03/21 火 17:14
> Subject: Re: [Sat] Starting SATP Terminology draft
>
>
> I agree with Rama that we should not totally exclude Physical Assets. Terminology-wise “Asset" is definitely a superclass, “Digital Asset" and “Physical Asset” are subclasses. Saying this, maybe “Asset" is used in all SATP documents and changing it to “Digital Asset” may require a lot of editing. If we need to keep it short we can use “Asset” as a default term for “Digital Asset”, not ideal but it is ok as a compromise.
>
> IMO it is very important to mention that assets are managed by Networks. Gateways are using only references to assets (e.g., asset references shall be used in lock assertions). Maybe the term "Asset Reference” should also be part of the SATP terminology.
>
> On 21 Mar 2023, at 09:55, Venkatraman Ramakrishna <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
> Or should we avoid using "Asset" and instead explicitly use "Digital Asset" (or just DA) everywhere in the SATP context? There may be places where we will need to refer to physical assets (like in a supply chain use case) and so we will need to avoid ambiguity. (Alternatively, "Asset" could default to "Digital Asset", and "Physical Asset" must be stated explicitly wherever required.)
>
> Data transfer/sharing, asset exchange, and asset transfer are described in the architecture draft. Thomas mentioned he hadn't copied terminology from that doc into the markdown list. I can submit a PR sometime soon with edits and additions.
>
> Rama
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tecnico Lisboa <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Sent: 19 March 2023 03:35
> To: Thomas Hardjono <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: Alexandru Chiriac <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Venkatraman Ramakrishna <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Sat] Starting SATP Terminology draft
>
> Hello Thomas and Alex,
> Thank you for putting the document together.
> It might be useful to say we use the term “Asset” interchangeably with “Digital Asset”. The concepts of data transfer, asset transfer, and asset exchange could also be useful to add.
> What do you think?
>
> Rafael
>
> On 18 Mar 2023, at 14:30, Thomas Hardjono <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
> 
> Folks,
>
> In preparation for the SATP WG meeting at IETF116 in Yokohama, Alex has created a new MarkDown file in our GitHub to capture our Terminology (thank you Alex).
>
> https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FCxSci%2FIETF-SATP%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fvocabulary%2Fvocabulary.md&data=05%7C01%7Calexandru.chiriac%40quant.network%7C296d582404b349f6426308db2a0c1380%7C70500bf4d41742598a6eb7a550c6d120%7C0%7C0%7C638150003574906090%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UeiN6%2FA8HAbi0CAHM993yigwp2QbArStmE%2BYsQ%2FWzAk%3D&reserved=0<https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FCxSci%2FIETF-SATP%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fvocabulary%2Fvocabulary.md&data=05%7C01%7Calexandru.chiriac%40quant.network%7C296d582404b349f6426308db2a0c1380%7C70500bf4d41742598a6eb7a550c6d120%7C0%7C0%7C638150003574906090%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UeiN6%2FA8HAbi0CAHM993yigwp2QbArStmE%2BYsQ%2FWzAk%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> I have copied some relevant definitions from the NIST IR8202 blockchain document, and also from the global FATF Recommendations #16 document (latest version is Feb 2023).
>
> (I have not copied over all the terminology from the Architecture draft or the SATP-Core draft).
>
>
> Please feel free to comment/fix or suggest alternatives on the mail-list.
>
>
>
> Best
>
> --Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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