Re: [scim] What if created and lastModified are not populated in the app?

Phillip Hunt <phil.hunt@independentid.com> Mon, 20 June 2022 15:15 UTC

Return-Path: <phil.hunt@independentid.com>
X-Original-To: scim@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: scim@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6D7C15AAE6 for <scim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.905
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.905 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=independentid-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cjl5A8baOJ3P for <scim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com (mail-pj1-x1033.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10064C157901 for <scim@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id w19-20020a17090a8a1300b001ec79064d8dso7751995pjn.2 for <scim@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=independentid-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=tn7wD3LauyMrk2GfLgsqK7WF+7heioxAJsKiFjgb1s4=; b=OZ2LVb7cur+Qa7g6FSJmF2CMdhT6xwqbnugyV2rHA6h1ZXQ2yGkHGkmmkKcKX+c7rL CeAAcxrSWcFeTNF7b8xxJOU5UpAhVdQuPeL0pRTeMUPOBkUiD1xlFV2nxLcD+fPAjEs+ BBNB7MiDCjAEtMjNZEtY6hJFkx+RSKVQYt500MKf5Dh3F4HZOyJiUfYMnfdJUUkEq0d/ Zdg0zBcjPMw2ORoJpb5JAu6ftGlNvYcSWaDp0ou/mfFVUIwmt4itqX8tf2AntzHW83tI ycEJrGd9sQ2yCsd0+O89vD0YMtnRGkNbNh73SEE16pIeRNjzRL/8qrMuPiIxi4mkXpq7 sK4w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=tn7wD3LauyMrk2GfLgsqK7WF+7heioxAJsKiFjgb1s4=; b=b/yJOQHlLdHEvZ0y3H2eTqVUgbspIbzAHL+Q7h8WnhSn3RmpodlWuD430KxAP64Pcz 0sHWmwz1gDd9eGAhbyERYx+gLPDdVXx/7ytfMXyMZ3PyTXKVoI7GM56GGUCqyuHqAmx7 u5qD5or8gLkgRCt0AOmFY8N6tgmPsaANInUWiFAy7suBnXGiHwcnfv5vkkTwUMySWmpE 8Y4BLwwpasaToK6jNPlIQeavk07H8vV6BQOYqgvNlubKAwsfrMrPaqc8ccmavZjLzWp6 BviPhR2rpm2HhRphGfJf2X8cnZKrNt0Rucs62un1OSxtES0IHwYRjY9pE0tC3P/QgDNd eiQw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+1Fepih4BgMirwNlGEbkrgQzj2PhrcqAhAC3SO11hydqCNBbna LHtc8tmkzsmsYXU7ftHs9zslqQuF1f7vzw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1v0FG/N2+hSxYOg0ZrX4RPXW5VAa3R24pl7p3TsldZr2C77C+HWOa58l3jipkiBCtFabgEP3Q==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4f84:b0:1e8:436b:a9ba with SMTP id qe4-20020a17090b4f8400b001e8436ba9bamr28120573pjb.191.1655738109198; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (node-1w7jr9qjhqzxq6irfv2vqjohf.ipv6.telus.net. [2001:569:7316:ae00:dc4f:3a7d:d105:18b3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p11-20020a170903248b00b001618b70dcc9sm8866293plw.101.2022.06.20.08.15.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-DD31CA99-A5F5-438E-BBED-22CC552F1254
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Phillip Hunt <phil.hunt@independentid.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:15:07 -0700
Message-Id: <FD2B00AD-38A1-42F5-A06B-90FBC3D09B2D@independentid.com>
References: <35bed205-ae26-619d-d067-13250dac628d@ozoux.net>
Cc: scim@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <35bed205-ae26-619d-d067-13250dac628d@ozoux.net>
To: Pierre Ozoux <pierre@ozoux.net>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19F77)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/scim/dLnxiwUnu_fwH4zkyaHRO1kRwPo>
Subject: Re: [scim] What if created and lastModified are not populated in the app?
X-BeenThere: scim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Simple Cloud Identity Management BOF <scim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/scim>, <mailto:scim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/scim/>
List-Post: <mailto:scim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:scim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim>, <mailto:scim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 15:15:10 -0000

The timestamps are used mainly for change detection so that clients can detect if the resource has changed since it was last retrieved. 

There may be other information uses such as recording when the account was opened. 

You could use a calculated (eg as in current time) or dummy date but keep in mind how clients might react to ever changing or never changing values. 

Phil

> On Jun 20, 2022, at 3:31 AM, Pierre Ozoux <pierre@ozoux.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm implementing a scim service provider for the free software Nextcloud, but I miss 2 informations for users:
> 
>  - created
> 
>  - lastModified
> 
> 
> 
> Reading rfc7643 it says that:
> 
>       created  The "DateTime" that the resource was added to the service
>          provider.  This attribute MUST be a DateTime.
> 
>       lastModified  The most recent DateTime that the details of this
>          resource were updated at the service provider.  If this
>          resource has never been modified since its initial creation,
>          the value MUST be the same as the value of "created".
> 
> I also read: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3339 but there is no option for a standard but null date.
> 
> 
> 
> Should I set it to year 0000, or to beginning of unix epoch?
> 
> 
> 
> (I also searched the ML, but the tool to search is really slow, couldn't really use it.)
> 
> Thanks for your help and have a nice day!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> scim mailing list
> scim@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scim