Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunlight-05
Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org> Sat, 09 February 2013 13:35 UTC
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 21:34:53 +0800
From: Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>
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Cc: secdir@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, draft-laurie-pki-sunlight.all@tools.ietf.org, jhutz@cmu.edu
Subject: Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunlight-05
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Hi Ben, I also just read through your draft in version -07. I can see the draft consists of two parts: 1. data structure 2. protocol. For part #1 the data structure: in case you are not aware of it, some years ago the IETF LTANS WG has done something a bit similar in a more generic way (i.e. for any data not only for certificates) in form of RFC4998 and RFC6283 with a number of implementations by major ECM and DMS vendors. Just as a thought, maybe helpful looking at or even for re-use instead of re-inventing the wheel? Best regards, Tobias On 30/01/13 18:15, Ben Laurie wrote: > On 29 January 2013 21:28, Jeffrey Hutzelman <jhutz@cmu.edu> wrote: >> On Tue, 2013-01-29 at 11:35 +0000, Ben Laurie wrote: >>> On 24 January 2013 19:06, Jeffrey Hutzelman <jhutz@cmu.edu> wrote: >>>> Similarly, as an anti-spam measure, this document proposes that logs accept >>>> only certificates which chain back to a known CA, and requires that logs >>>> validate each submitted certificate before appending it to the log. This >>>> sounds good, but it's not the only possible mechanism, and so I think MUST >>>> is too strong here. Additionally, there is no discussion of the security >>>> implications if a client depends on a log to do this and the log does not >>>> actually do so. Rather than requiring that logs validate every submitted >>>> certificate, the document should only RECOMMEND that they do so, and make >>>> clear that clients MUST NOT depend on such validation having been done. >>> On second thoughts, whilst that is an effective anti-spam measure, it >>> is also part of the functionality of CT: i.e. to identify misissue and >>> give some means to do something about it. The CA check ensures we have >>> someone to blame for misissue. >> Hrm. I sort of thought the idea was for the logs to be untrusted >> repositories, able to be audited but not themselves expected to detect >> problems. If logs are expected to do validation of this sort, is there >> a way for a third party to discover whether they are doing so (or at >> least, whether they are accepting certificates they shouldn't)? > A third party can indeed verify this - they just watch the log like > any monitor does. > >>> I am not averse to suggestions that achieve the overall aim, but I >>> don't see the virtue of leaving it vague in the description of the >>> experiment we are actually running. >> I'm not suggesting vagueness; rather, I'm merely suggesting downgrading >> a MUST to a SHOULD, which is still quite strong. What happens if >> someone wants to start logging certs issued by a private CA, or >> self-signed certs they have observed, or...? > I don't see an issue with logging certs from a private CA. As for > self-signed certs, I don't see the point, but I guess if someone > figures out a point we can relax it in the next version. > >> I'm suppose I'm OK with keeping the scope narrower than that for >> purposes of the experiment, as long as it is possible to relax the >> requirement later without breaking the system. Hence the importance of >> making it clear that clients must not rely on logs to have done >> validation (on which point I think we've already reached agreement). > Cool. > _______________________________________________ > secdir mailing list > secdir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir > wiki: http://tools.ietf.org/area/sec/trac/wiki/SecDirReview
- [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunlight-… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] [therightkey] dir review of draft-la… =JeffH
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Tobias Gondrom
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Tobias Gondrom
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] dir review of draft-laurie-pki-sunli… Tobias Gondrom