IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [secdir] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Uta] [Last-Call] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis-09

Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Sat, 16 July 2022 02:50 UTC

Return-Path: <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
X-Original-To: secdir@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: secdir@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAB3C14CF03 for <secdir@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jul 2022 19:50:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.907
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tme7rjIvHACo for <secdir@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Jul 2022 19:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from au-smtp-delivery-117.mimecast.com (au-smtp-delivery-117.mimecast.com [103.96.21.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD1C0C14CF02 for <secdir@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Jul 2022 19:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from AUS01-SY4-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sy4aus01lp2171.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.71.171]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id au-mta-109-1PQD-yPSNKKF9B0a3VQV-w-1; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 12:48:33 +1000
X-MC-Unique: 1PQD-yPSNKKF9B0a3VQV-w-1
Received: from SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:10b::10) by SYBPR01MB6160.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:107::9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5438.14; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 02:48:32 +0000
Received: from SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::64d6:2532:7a7e:561d]) by SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::64d6:2532:7a7e:561d%7]) with mapi id 15.20.5438.020; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 02:48:32 +0000
From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
To: Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
CC: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis.all@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "uta@ietf.org" <uta@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Uta] [Last-Call] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis-09
Thread-Index: AQHYlunzWeaHHDs2rkWl2o6nLvuO+q18rMkAgACCzMCAAOxOAIAAA6WAgAAL6YCAAiObLg==
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 02:48:31 +0000
Message-ID: <SY4PR01MB6251B5FFBC00A47B44AECB0CEE8A9@SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <165766858084.5251.12485129434316295805@ietfa.amsl.com> <b24e2934-200f-4f80-5261-aa2a977da39b@stpeter.im> <CAChr6Syq+uOTJsvqWuSustq_HdTaXCtDepyCuRWx+jGoEB06Fw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SzkAmbjGK4XOwPkSwssLoG4NW1yG-6b2aFdFr43yF2zwQ@mail.gmail.com> <SY4PR01MB625186377F07976EFEF775F7EE889@SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com> <BY5PR00MB0707E1335EB621253DB3BDA98C889@BY5PR00MB0707.namprd00.prod.outlook.com> <CAChr6SwoHicUAWQYggbVe_pg+TncE_mdq31ShoxgvJpywBXfbw@mail.gmail.com> <CH2PR00MB0711752EE2AB5B2EE20C91538C889@CH2PR00MB0711.namprd00.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <CH2PR00MB0711752EE2AB5B2EE20C91538C889@CH2PR00MB0711.namprd00.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ActionId=4ffbda01-4e6a-446a-ac92-00079f4c6b9d; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=Internal; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2022-07-14T17:36:51Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9292672d-c0ae-4e44-4183-08da66d5aba5
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SYBPR01MB6160:EE_
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230016)(4636009)(396003)(39860400002)(366004)(136003)(346002)(376002)(66574015)(55016003)(186003)(71200400001)(110136005)(54906003)(8676002)(64756008)(66446008)(66476007)(66556008)(4326008)(66946007)(76116006)(9686003)(26005)(7696005)(6506007)(2906002)(41300700001)(33656002)(38100700002)(86362001)(122000001)(38070700005)(4744005)(786003)(316002)(5660300002)(478600001)(8936002)(52536014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: cs.auckland.ac.nz
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SY4PR01MB6251.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9292672d-c0ae-4e44-4183-08da66d5aba5
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Jul 2022 02:48:31.9678 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d1b36e95-0d50-42e9-958f-b63fa906beaa
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fSL9Cpt1CIcqgDpZ+WTGWD8hjaS1jCBvbOqKchHHYVV9DyLLkL0mUK2DTWavLHHC8hrYVC4kwoLwZlf0YCHjYMalzRg1Uvn6i6SfO6phqZw=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SYBPR01MB6160
Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CAU17A13 smtp.mailfrom=pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz
X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0
X-Mimecast-Originator: cs.auckland.ac.nz
Content-Language: en-NZ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdir/Fn6N8F761gBr-XMb_J1J167Jhjc>
Subject: Re: [secdir] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Uta] [Last-Call] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-uta-rfc7525bis-09
X-BeenThere: secdir@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Area Directorate <secdir.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/secdir>, <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/secdir/>
List-Post: <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir>, <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 02:50:08 -0000

Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com> writes:

>The TLS 1.3 adoption document you reference seems to be based solely on Web
>browser data:

This seems to be near-universal when TLS is discussed, see several previous
examples of this on this list.  Just as any new medical breakthrough
announcement needs to have the word "in mice" appended to it, so any
discussion of TLS usage should have "on the web" appended to it unless it's
explicitly not so.

This extends to other protocols as well, e.g during the HTTP/2 discussion the
only time that any possible non-web use of HTTP was even acknowledged it was
dismissed with, in effect, "Let them eat HTTP 1.1".

Peter.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email