Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-gost-05
Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> Tue, 09 February 2010 21:10 UTC
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:11:56 -0500
To: Basil Dolmatov <dol@cryptocom.ru>
From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
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Cc: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com>, Ralph Droms <rdroms@cisco.com>, ogud@ogud.com, secdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-gost-05
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Basil, Sorry that I seem to have lost your message in my inbox for a while. Replies inline below. >>... >Yes, we do disagree in principles (see below). > >>The question for both DNSSEC and SIDR/RPKI is how many algorithms >>relying parties MUST/SHOULD be >> >I wondered why MUST and SHOULD are quoted together. I thought that >it is two _different_ modal verbs with _different_ meaning and >_different_ implementation demands. SHOULD is MUST with an allowance for "carefully weighed" exceptions. Both indicate that a compliant implementation ought to have code that supports the referenced feature. In this case, that would be code to support GOST algs. > >... >>I believe that the situation for DNESEC is equivalent, i.e., >>imposing a requirement (via MUST or SHOULD) to support more than a >>current and next set of algorithms is not justifiable. >> >The situation in DNSSec is entirely different from SIDR: > >>Comparing to DNS the IDR ideology is entirely different: DNS is >>wholistic and united service, but main IDR principle is the >>independence of routing decisions for any given AS. >> >The way that was chosen by SIDR developers is demanding to invent >some methods and technologies to prevent network from being split. >Thank you, Steve, you proposed one of the possible technologies >which makes that possible (at least makes a forthcoming split more >or less implicit). >That does not mean that this technology is the _good_ one. It means >that for the given set of circumstances this solution is >_the_only_possible_ one. The local TA management capability that I have described for SIDR is intended to deal with the general problem of an RP (or a sovereign entity) wanting to create and manage a local view of the RPKI. It is not primarily designed to accommodate national algorithms, although it can be used for that was well. >So, I quit the discussion in SIDR, not because of I was satisfied >with the technology and solutions, but because of I have understood >how I could maintain network interoperability even with this rigid >technology and have had more urgent tasks to perform. > >I kindly ask to all participating parties do not try to castrate >flexible protocol design of DNSSec to the SIDR/RPKI rigid approach. Oh, "castrate" seems like a pretty harsh term to use :-). Both the RPKI and DNSSEC are flexible protocols. We're debating the issue of how broad a set of algorithms MUST/SHOULD be supported by RPs, which is an architectural (and political) issue. >>It imposes unacceptable costs on resolvers (analogous to RPs in the >>RPKI context) >> >RPs - are not resolver analogues, but this is for another discussion. OK. >>and may have adverse secruity implications. Such externalization of >>costs is a fundamentally bad approach, one that the IETF tries to >>avoid in analogous contexts in all areas. >> >Here is another difference od DNSSec from SIDR - most of the >software is open-source in DNSSec, so costs have been already >distributed evenly. >As for proprietary realisations it seems to me the maintaining of >the cost/profit balance is the task of the management of the given >enterprise, and I am sure that they will do their work well. We disagree on the nature of how costs may accrue. >>It is fine for DNSEXT to allocate algorithm IDs to national >>algorithms like GOST, but it is not appropriate to mandate their >>support, for the reasons cited in my review. >> >I do agree that MUST set of algorithms should be very narrow and >limited generally speaking to those algorithms by which root zone is >signed. I'm glad we agree on this. Since SHOULD is only a slightly-diminished form of MUST, ... >As for the other algorithms, it seems to me that the main goal of >DNS system is the providing integral name service resolution. If one >have to perform some additional steps (install different resolver >software, include something and something) just to get access to the >network names on some part of the world, then the obvious next step >will be to point this different resolver to another root of the tree. Some might interpret this as a threat, even though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. >Maybe this is the way the DNS system will develop, but now I think >that the some effort to keep the DNS system united is justified. Unified is a goal we both agree upon, but mandated support for national algorithms is NOT a unifying principle, it is a Balkanizing principle (if you'll pardon the term). Steve
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Andrew Sullivan
- [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-gost-… Stephen Kent
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Stephen Kent
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Uri Blumenthal
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… David McGrew
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Stephen Kent
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Basil Dolmatov
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Basil Dolmatov
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Uri Blumenthal
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Sandra Murphy
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Sandra Murphy
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Stephen Kent
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Basil Dolmatov
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Stephen Kent
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Basil Dolmatov
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Stephen Kent
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [secdir] review of draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-g… Jeffrey Hutzelman