Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Re:Security review of draft-levine-herkula-oneclick-05
"John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> Sun, 18 September 2016 23:36 UTC
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Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 19:36:00 -0400
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From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
To: Ben Laurie <benl@google.com>
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Cc: Paul Kincaid-Smith <paulkincaidsmith@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Tobias Herkula <tobias.herkula@optivo.de>, "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Re:Security review of draft-levine-herkula-oneclick-05
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One other thought -- I think the most common thing that mailers do is to put the subscriber info into a database where each record includes a randomly generated key unrelated to anything else. Then you put that key into the URI, no HMAC needed. R's, John >>> It's only a goal here because they have other ways to do it if it's not >>> one-click. >> >> Ok, then in that case it seems like you only need to secure the POST >> arguments, not the URI. > > There's several scenarios that this draft is addressing: > > A) bad guy sends fake mail with real insecure opt-out link, MUA clicks it > indirectly when user hits the junk button > > B) real message with real link is clicked by helpful anti-spam software, not > the user > > The hash stuff is for A, the POST is for B. Since the POST gets both the URI > and the arguments, the hash can be in whichever is operationally easier. All > the places that have rules about commercial junk mail say that if the > recipient tells you to stop, you have to stop and "the link was in a fake > message" isn't a defense. It's quite common now for the unsubscribe URI to be > totally opaque, e.g., with a hash and a key the mailer looks up in a database > to find the recipient's address, so that malicious parties can't guess other > subscribers' addresses. If they add POST arguments for one-click, they'll > likely keep the existing opaque URI, and with the secure URI, the POST > arguments tell it nothing beyond the fact that this is a one-click > transaction. > > In the two decades since 2369 came out, the URI stuff has become common > knowledge among the narrow group of people for whom "deliverability" is an > adjective. I really don't want to open up 2369 with this draft, because I > don't think the small amount this draft says would be helpful. It doesn't > change the way people use 2369, it only adds a new way to do > list-unsubscribe. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
- [secdir] Security review of draft-levine-herkula-… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Security revie… John R. Levine
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Security revie… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Security revie… Ben Laurie
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Security revie… John R. Levine
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Re:Security re… John R. Levine
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Re:Security re… John R. Levine
- Re: [secdir] [taugh.com-standards] Re:Security re… Ben Laurie