Re: [secdir] secdir review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-tinymt32

Carl Wallace <carl@redhoundsoftware.com> Tue, 28 May 2019 10:24 UTC

Return-Path: <carl@redhoundsoftware.com>
X-Original-To: secdir@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: secdir@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 602EE1201C9 for <secdir@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 May 2019 03:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.997
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhoundsoftware.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NvO-cXecrj_t for <secdir@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 May 2019 03:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9B281201C3 for <secdir@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 May 2019 03:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id p18so21709993qkk.0 for <secdir@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 May 2019 03:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhoundsoftware.com; s=google; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:thread-topic :references:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=S+kmS8qEsQM+zWPN/vesR2Ri8IqmDnDcUnFf17Lrwfk=; b=dLjX3SyNwqqgHuSEdZeY0d2ohl52gp8FDizW5S3Hk20sCoATeug10giiSuiW+YdrGI EhwlJEDswUHatKR1WBuZhIERrwuBYyW5L+FowlaLaIMlFLiJZ77SY/9WILb9IBDNAlWJ U2kM8joP5JDtxW1888o/mDbb978yOH4F+ApZc=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=S+kmS8qEsQM+zWPN/vesR2Ri8IqmDnDcUnFf17Lrwfk=; b=gXplhPicLcYFac3Tn1rBUnYQ02/P8qa81EUeOIKJdGyjIdAFqvj+4FAuxjS4B/r7K+ uUZEU1pfJBftPXqCu0NW13vRycitbPv9dgVaj3IXPciExZkhC1vSCVy88XSzOQb8GYcK RgVobgFk70wFVfF9fnwoUY9Swbi5rqehLe5k0fl34VSRdEc8cgQkFdWULyJ5QzYqKZ95 CDiqY7a2NHlOQ+ia4+E9utLytsHxp8P85ASA2rIaTljTwRrKXSmaizfqgIMBzCkZheMm CljmgxjmMG+EsKEA8702htKX4WoIy7JIp5jlUgo7oTGSy2zPEiuEQ3YXU8d5bJ0IcE1E hovA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXf/HXE9GkMZJaE9C5GT5ZcZMgHCBg83cBwgK2LcRX+pp3bbH9K zSZDLqun28tMgBucuV2Hb+HvoQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyU5nm/OfVAx3ObGhGg/hrHysrj+KN+f/yahHLkjR1qbI64NY4l57/+u8vwUOi9miMBvrXZ1g==
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9950:: with SMTP id i16mr93358696qvd.165.1559039075643; Tue, 28 May 2019 03:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.2.105] (pool-96-255-231-27.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [96.255.231.27]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c32sm5526642qtd.61.2019.05.28.03.24.32 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 May 2019 03:24:34 -0700 (PDT)
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.6.170621
Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 06:24:35 -0400
From: Carl Wallace <carl@redhoundsoftware.com>
To: Vincent Roca <vincent.roca@inria.fr>
CC: <secdir@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-tsvwg-tinymt32.all@ietf.org>, <iesg@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <D9128495.DE7C4%carl@redhoundsoftware.com>
Thread-Topic: secdir review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-tinymt32
References: <D90477F6.DDB80%carl@redhoundsoftware.com> <3B5B0C9F-849C-4EBA-86F0-24172278BEF8@inria.fr>
In-Reply-To: <3B5B0C9F-849C-4EBA-86F0-24172278BEF8@inria.fr>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3641869480_5181310"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdir/q1q07386ArDabWgtXD4kgNXeCdI>
Subject: Re: [secdir] secdir review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-tinymt32
X-BeenThere: secdir@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Area Directorate <secdir.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/secdir>, <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/secdir/>
List-Post: <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir>, <mailto:secdir-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 10:24:39 -0000

Great. Thanks. 

From:  Vincent Roca <vincent.roca@inria.fr>;
Date:  Monday, May 27, 2019 at 5:02 AM
To:  Carl Wallace <carl@redhoundsoftware.com>;
Cc:  Vincent Roca <vincent.roca@inria.fr>;, <secdir@ietf.org>;,
<draft-ietf-tsvwg-tinymt32.all@ietf.org>;, <iesg@ietf.org>;
Subject:  Re: secdir review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-tinymt32

> Hello Carl, all,
> 
> Thanks a lot for your secdir review.
> 
>> Le 17 mai 2019 à 20:38, Carl Wallace <carl@redhoundsoftware.com>; a écrit :
>> 
>> I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's
>> ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.
>> These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area
>> directors.  Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments
>> just like any other last call comments.
>> 
>> This document describes the TinyMT32 Pseudo Random Number Generator (PRNG)
>> that produces 32-bit pseudo-random unsigned integers and aims at having a
>> simple-to-use and deterministic solution. The document is well written and
>> the sample code produces the sample output. I am not a mathematician so no
>> comments on the mechanism. I have a few minor nits/comments.
> 
> 
> 
>> The security
>> considerations may benefit from repeating the last sentence of the fourth
>> paragraph in the introduction (I.e., not 'meant to be used for
>> cryptographic applications’).
> 
> [VR] Very good suggestion. Added.
> 
> NEW:
> 4.  Security Considerations
> 
>    The authors do not believe the present specification generates
>    specific security risks per se.  However, neither the TinyMT nor MT
>    PRNG are meant to be used for cryptographic applications.
> 
>>  The bibliography should include all of the
>> references cited in the draft.
> 
> [VR] We agree, and we changed all <eref target=« https://… » />
> links to a well identified « Informative References » entry.
> 
> NEW:
>    [TinyMT-dev]
>               Saito, M. and M. Matsumoto, "Tiny Mersenne Twister
>               (TinyMT) github site", <https://github.com/
>               MersenneTwister-Lab/TinyMT>.
> 
>    [TinyMT-params]
>               Rikitake, K., "TinyMT pre-calculated parameter list github
>               site", <https://github.com/jj1bdx/tinymtdc-longbatch/>;.
> 
>    [TinyMT-web]
>               Saito, M. and M. Matsumoto, "Tiny Mersenne Twister
>               (TinyMT) web site",
>               <http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/TINYMT/>;.
> 
>> Adding some text or references to expand on
>> the mentioned limitations of RFC5170 or to describe how the parameter set
>> from which the parameters selected in this draft would be nice as well.
> 
> [VR] We agree. I’ve added a mention to the « Numerical Recipes in C » 2nd
> edition for the limits of the Park-Miller PRNG specified in RFC 5170, as well
> as the companion RLC I-D where we mention the observations we made with
> this PRNG.
> 
> NEW:
>    […] TinyMT32 represents a major improvement with respect to the
>    Park-Miler Linear Congruential PRNG (e.g., as specified in [RFC5170])
>    that suffers several known limitations (see for instance [PTVF92],
>    section 7.1, pp. 279, and [RLC-ID], Appendix B).
> 
> 
> Concerning the chosen parameter set, they have been selected among an
> official list of parameter set values, as explained. It’s a bit arbitrary (we
> chose
> the 1st entry), as explained, but it’s a common parameter set (there’s a
> publication based on it listed in the Informative References section).
> There’s of course a theoretical background but I don’t think it’s worth
> entering 
> that kind of details (especially as the two authors didn’t publish a research
> paper on TinyMT32).
> 
> Thanks a lot for your comments.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>   Vincent on behalf of the authors