Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-16
Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Mon, 01 October 2018 19:37 UTC
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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 12:36:56 -0700
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From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra.all@ietf.org, IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>, anima@ietf.org, Security Directorate <secdir@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-16
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>> a stunning review as usual. but i have two questions which you kind >> of finessed. they are simple binary, i.e. yes/no, questions that the >> end user, to whom the IETF is ultimately responsible, really cares >> about. > >> if the manufacturer's servers go down, either permanently or even for >> a day, does the device i have purchased still work? i.e. is it fail >> soft? [0] > > First, BRSKI as used by ANIMA is specifically not targetted at Things. > (We are developing profiles of BRSKI that are about Things, but I > think that this internet-draft should not be be evaluated on that > basis). > > It's targetted at routers and other devices found at ISPs or > Enterprises. i missed where i said light bulbs. i do have some of those, but i run routers, servers, etc.; and do not want $vendor to break my network for *any* reason. > Second, the only time the manufacturer's servers need to be alive is > when device ownership is claimed. i.e. when i sell the router to some other op. that was my second question. > Once the device is claimed, it joins *YOUR* network, and trusts your > infrastructure, not the manufacturer. Whether or not the device will > *operate* without the manufacturer's servers is really outside of > BRSKI. ahhh. we just sell the guns, we do not say how they are used. >> That answer seems to imply that if the MASA is down before I try to >> transfer my device, and if the MASA is still down when the recipient >> tries to get my device working, it won't work. > >> Which seems to mean that once a MASA goes down permanently, any new >> can not get a device reliant on that MASA to work. > >> Seems a pretty severe limitation. > > You are answering a different question than Randy asked no. he is speaking to the second question i asked. and his answer deeply concerns me. > This is a pretty important question and we have discussed it at > length. I remain concerned, but as far as I can see, we have this > problem already. if i understand correctly, it creates a new problem, needing the manufacturer's consent for me to resell my light^Hrouter. > It fundamentally depends upon a number of things which unfortunately, the > manufacturer has ultimate decision making about. see above about guns randy
- [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-an… Christian Huitema
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Christian Huitema
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Christian Huitema
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Uri Blumenthal
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Max Pritikin (pritikin)
- [secdir] dealing with many the secdir and genart … Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Gen-art] dealing with many the secd… Brian E Carpenter