Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-16
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 03 October 2018 00:33 UTC
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra.all@ietf.org, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>, anima@ietf.org, Security Directorate <secdir@ietf.org>
References: <153826253306.18743.9250084704876465818@ietfa.amsl.com> <m2sh1qkebi.wl-randy@psg.com> <057bd957-06b4-824e-a7c8-214383819621@huitema.net> <m2murxi8ws.wl-randy@psg.com> <b4a32733-c2df-6bea-17d2-4d45ee4d5136@cisco.com> <m2wor0h9vu.wl-randy@psg.com> <1fd9c9d5-508f-901e-818c-3cc87725c331@cisco.com> <m2d0ssh661.wl-randy@psg.com> <2555.1538506845@localhost> <6b2f2b80-5e9e-101f-4aac-f182f638f8b1@gmail.com> <e23fefe6-fcad-6c5c-fbef-9dac9270b42c@joelhalpern.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 13:33:19 +1300
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Subject: Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-16
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On 2018-10-03 09:06, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Off-list: > > It sounds from you rnote like either: > 1) Anima admission process is seriously underspecified in a way that > affects itneroperability, or No, it's *intentionally* underspecified w.r.t. authorization. The registrar is part of a specific autonomic networking implementation, so I think it's OK that this is not standardized. Once there is established practice, it might be time to revisit this. > 2) BRSKI is actually irrelevant to ANIMA, and should be reviewed and > advanced (if desired) by some other working group. I think BRSKI has the misfortune of being potentially quite general, but it is in fact required by Anima as the basis for the initial secure substrate. > I doubt either is your intention. Indeed not. > And statements such as Eliot's ill-formed comment that no one would do > that do not help the case for the Anima WG having thought this through. I think it's been thought through but badly articulated. In that sense, the Last Call is doing its job. Brian > > Yours, > Joel > > On 10/2/18 3:46 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 2018-10-03 08:00, Michael Richardson wrote: >>> >>> lear> I think we've lost sight of what we're talking about. We're talking >>> lear> about a completely automated method for a local trust anchor to be >>> lear> installed on a device, and a kick to EST for the device to receive a >>> lear> local credential. For that to happen there needs to be a trusted >>> lear> introduction, and the device manufacturer or its agent is in the best >>> lear> position to do that. >>> >>> Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote: >>> > no. the owner's trust controller is. >>> >>> Cool. It's a relief to know that we've missed something obvious. >>> Could you please explain things more? >>> >>> We call the owner's trust controller the "Registrar", or sometimes the >>> Join-Registrar/Coordinator. I don't mind calling it a trust controller, but >>> maybe your term has a different meaning. >> >> There's a point that close followers of Anima may know and that others >> don't. There is a topic intentionally missed out of the BRSKI document, >> which is how the registrar decides whether a particular device, let's >> say device X12345, is allowed to join the secure domain in question. >> >> This point is skated over in the draft; in fact there is a text glitch >> in section 5.2 where it should be stated, already known to the authors. >> (Sorry, but we didn't find that text glitch soon enough to fix it before >> the IETF Last Call.) >> >> The actual authorization mechanism - "X12345 is allowed to join" - is >> not part of BRSKI. It is, as Randy rightly implies, not the business >> of the manufacturer. >> >> The MASA is used only to verify that X12345 is in fact X12345. It's >> part of the trust model, not the authorization model. >> >> If I had my wishes, the MASA would be optional, with a local voucher >> store in the registrar as the alternative. But that wasn't the WG >> consensus. >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Anima mailing list >> Anima@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >> > . >
- [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-an… Christian Huitema
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Christian Huitema
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] Secdir last call review of draft-iet… Christian Huitema
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Randy Bush
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Uri Blumenthal
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Eliot Lear
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Anima] Secdir last call review of d… Max Pritikin (pritikin)
- [secdir] dealing with many the secdir and genart … Michael Richardson
- Re: [secdir] [Gen-art] dealing with many the secd… Brian E Carpenter