Re: [Secdispatch] Comments on draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-02

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Tue, 27 July 2021 13:29 UTC

Return-Path: <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Original-To: secdispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: secdispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3969B3A08A6; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 06:29:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.549
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 45jmf_Hx02jA; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 06:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B9D03A08A9; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 06:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0122331.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 16RDEvCO003615; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:28:53 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=jan2016.eng; bh=Wg6rHz64SUU2UpvPF6gtdJz6zYT7AfztsBl3IJ0tHiA=; b=bWLFZxMDWRihm4OGvr8FQhTZqPBn01/RLCa2labF9+gZ1pEKBKUq5W5cXLb+wrvpQtvu TIK70KdUiHNwrNJ0XzTpw4gsgf2kyQOXf4RMMhH5U/NDzgQMDUokRRR2Vr0JRY3MmBKr j3QlqJbp5N5ko53Dqx3QxA3RaqC+tgowIYfAesF566Mh4xJsJtNMPttcVIBzYDDZGbLK 4PUDCUlp0bHv6Z6LdlwtDiex0wOL/3EHwmy0bx/aUav6Hy58xPn7/IE1nO2ch3yxdBtz m6HpPnF7YTmJHKZzSUsOC75TqFKy3+Qjk2cAB/h68YqHrmGfnjutRo9bNL08CM5+QTGk UQ==
Received: from prod-mail-ppoint4 (a72-247-45-32.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.247.45.32] (may be forged)) by mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3a236qde23-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:28:52 +0100
Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 16RDJlRv028493; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 09:28:51 -0400
Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.118]) by prod-mail-ppoint4.akamai.com with ESMTP id 3a23cvnkc2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Jul 2021 09:28:51 -0400
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.119) by ustx2ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.122) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 08:28:50 -0500
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.119]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.023; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 08:28:50 -0500
From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, Mallory Knodel <mknodel@cdt.org>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, IETF SecDispatch <secdispatch@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Secdispatch] Comments on draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-02
Thread-Index: AQHXgnMvZOeW0gM1mUyhMikJrLTT2KtV8ssAgABOWYD//72EAIAAU80AgACcQAD///PSgA==
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 13:28:49 +0000
Message-ID: <453379FF-231D-4A51-8885-A24498569E5E@akamai.com>
References: <CABcZeBOZwcpvJweCDh_vbd7vL0ccab3S6hKgPHKuoWPUtkBr9g@mail.gmail.com> <99F30413-4518-40E6-A740-2DA1049A3D1B@akamai.com> <c9c66e3e-4e5b-119b-c00b-f60aae734fdb@cdt.org> <416C1A8D-4F95-4E25-884E-1A18EEDA6988@akamai.com> <593fc980-7549-81a0-8618-a5c1a481b1bb@cdt.org> <DBBPR08MB5915B1B7EC1BF46056022E4EFAE99@DBBPR08MB5915.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <DBBPR08MB5915B1B7EC1BF46056022E4EFAE99@DBBPR08MB5915.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.51.21071101
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <3870BDF1C7ECC6429094EF82F48C8E9F@akamai.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-27_07:2021-07-27, 2021-07-27 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=732 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2107270079
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: RXoWZ_UCl7_eH1Htp6ovXUydl4bYPRTY
X-Proofpoint-GUID: RXoWZ_UCl7_eH1Htp6ovXUydl4bYPRTY
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-27_07:2021-07-27, 2021-07-27 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=697 clxscore=1011 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2107270079
X-Agari-Authentication-Results: mx.akamai.com; spf=${SPFResult} (sender IP is 72.247.45.32) smtp.mailfrom=rsalz@akamai.com smtp.helo=prod-mail-ppoint4
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/VMuJiOUze_jcUNZZTxUioPWFZPo>
Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] Comments on draft-knodel-e2ee-definition-02
X-BeenThere: secdispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Dispatch <secdispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/secdispatch>, <mailto:secdispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/secdispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:secdispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:secdispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch>, <mailto:secdispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 13:29:02 -0000

>    * First, it became a marketing term. Many want to label their solution as something that provides e2e security.

That is important, especially if we are trying to win what is a "war of words" against people who can say "lawful intercept"