Re: [Secdispatch] Updating/Replacing RFC 2660 ? (was Re: [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing)
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 04 November 2019 18:33 UTC
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References: <E53D0610-2A30-483E-9BF5-BC83E7BC2CBF@mit.edu> <AE0333E9-651F-4362-9BC2-5B24DDBB531A@mnot.net> <2AC5BD50-53E3-41CE-A2C3-C25D310A89ED@mit.edu> <CANh-dXnFQy+-s4LH6eL1fvEoFOVvhSY+jj-cAv2kuyx+JwC9_Q@mail.gmail.com> <400abd10-3bbc-2288-b357-f36ad721cebf@openca.org>
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 10:33:04 -0800
Message-ID: <CABcZeBN25BaXCFeJGysQ2jhggwgjYGq1dZyGE3grbL5rcwbxvA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Dr. Pala" <madwolf@openca.org>
Cc: IETF SecDispatch <secdispatch@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] Updating/Replacing RFC 2660 ? (was Re: [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing)
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Speaking as one of the authors of 2660, if we want to attack these problems, I don't think it is really a suitable starting point, though perhaps there are ideas we could steal. -Ekr On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 10:20 AM Dr. Pala <madwolf@openca.org> wrote: > Hi Jeffrey, Justin, Mark, all, > > I have not had the time to read the proposals, but are you familiar with > RFC 2660 ? > > Would that provide the authentication you are talking about for both > requests and responses ? > > Is the proposal to update / replace the RFC or do you see it as something > completely different ? > > Cheers, > Max > > On 11/2/19 9:18 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > > That's roughly what I was going to say. :) I'd like to avoid the scope > creep of having WPACK take on request signing in addition to, effectively, > response signing. It's *possible* that we could define an HTTP header in a > general enough way that it would work for both purposes, and > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cavage-http-signatures-12#section-4 attempts > to do that, but the problem spaces seem to be different enough that we > should have separate groups write down the requirements for each side's > signatures before deciding that a single header will work. It's not even > clear to me that WPACK is going to end up defining an HTTP header, even > though my draft currently does so. > > I'll be sure to attend the request-signing sessions in case they > establish that I'm wrong about this. > > Jeffrey > > On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:39 PM Justin Richer <jricher@mit.edu> wrote: > >> Thanks for the pointer to the BoF, I hadn’t seen that one. I am familiar >> with the draft you linked though: The main difference is that the draft in >> question is for a signed response, whereas the draft(s) I’ve pointed at are >> for a signed request. Yes, they ought to be aligned, but the WG in question >> seems to be much more focused on packaging responses together than dealing >> with requests. If that new group also wants to take on request signing, >> then by all means let’s do it there. But it’s not as clean a match as it >> might seem on the surface, I think. >> >> — Justin >> >> > On Nov 2, 2019, at 12:26 AM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Justin, >> > >> > It's worth noting that there's a Working Group forming BoF, wpack, >> being held in Singapore about a draft with similar goals: >> > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yasskin-http-origin-signed-responses-07 >> > >> > In particular, both this draft and Jeffrey's propose the Signature HTTP >> header field, and seem to have at least partially overlapping use cases. >> > >> > If possible, it'd be good to avoid duplication of effort -- especially >> in terms of evaluating security properties and "fit" into HTTP by the >> security and HTTP communities, respectively. So, I'd suggest bringing it up >> there instead. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > >> >> On 2 Nov 2019, at 8:59 am, Justin Richer <jricher@mit.edu> wrote: >> >> >> >> I would like to present and discuss HTTP Request signing at both the >> DISPATCH and SECDISPATCH meetings at IETF106 in Singapore. This I-D has >> been floating around for years now and has been adopted by a number of >> different external groups and efforts: >> >> >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cavage-http-signatures >> >> >> >> I’ve spoken with the authors of the draft and we’d like to find out >> how to bring this forward to publication within the IETF. I’m targeting >> both dispatch groups because this represents the intersection of both >> areas, and I think we’d get different perspectives from each side that we >> should consider. >> >> >> >> There have been a number of other drafts that have approached HTTP >> request signing as well (I’ve written two of them myself), but none has >> caught on to date and none have made it to RFC. Lately, though, I’ve been >> seeing a lot of renewed effort in different sectors, and in particular the >> financial sector and cloud services, to have a general purpose HTTP message >> signing capability. As such, I think it’s time to push something forward. >> >> >> >> I’ve reached out to the chairs for both DISPATCH and SECDISPATCH to >> request a presentation slot. >> >> >> >> Thank you, and I’ll see you all in Singapore! >> >> — Justin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dispatch mailing list >> >> dispatch@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >> > >> > -- >> > Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dispatch mailing list >> dispatch@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch >> > > _______________________________________________ > Secdispatch mailing listSecdispatch@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch > > -- > Best Regards, > Massimiliano Pala, Ph.D. > OpenCA Labs Director > [image: OpenCA Logo] > _______________________________________________ > Secdispatch mailing list > Secdispatch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdispatch >
- [Secdispatch] HTTP Request Signing Justin Richer
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Justin Richer
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Jeffrey Yasskin
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [Secdispatch] Updating/Replacing RFC 2660 ? (was … Dr. Pala
- Re: [Secdispatch] Updating/Replacing RFC 2660 ? (… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Mary Barnes
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Justin Richer
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Justin Richer
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Adam Roach
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [Secdispatch] [dispatch] HTTP Request Signing Justin Richer