Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Bridges
Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com> Fri, 19 August 2005 21:03 UTC
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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:03:08 -0500
From: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@sun.com>
To: Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Bridges
Message-ID: <20050819210308.GI6659@binky.Central.Sun.COM>
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On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 02:52:22PM -0400, Charles Clancy wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > >>From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:Nicolas.Williams@sun.com] > >> > >>On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 06:14:07PM -0400, Charles Clancy wrote: > >>> > >>>IMHO, Framework Bindings sounds like the way to go. It gives you more > >>>control over which mechanisms are used in which frameworks. Each > >>>framework has a different threat model, and not all mechanisms from > >>>one framework may be good in another. For example, using basic krb5 > >>>in 802.11i-EAP is a bad idea because of dictionary attacks. > >> > >>Sure, but you could always do > >>krb5-over-TLS-with-cryptographic-bindings. > >> > > > >[Joe] How would this be instantiated? Currently EAP does not run over a > >specific security layer. There are EAP mechanisms that provide a secure > >tunnel for running other mechanisms. Would an EAP to GSS bridge have to > >be a tunneling method? > > Whatever happened to EAP-GSS? Dunno, but as I recall some of the KITTEN WG work is, in part, aimed at making EAP-GSS possible, specifically the GSS_Pseudo_random() extension. > http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IEEE/draft-aboba-pppext-eapgss-12.txt > > "krb5->GSS-API->EAP-GSS->EAP-TTLS->EAP" would work. Of course, the length > of that string should be a motivator for bindings over bridges. Yes, but replace 'krb5' with 'IAKERB' or soemthing like it. Using slightly different (clearer?) notation, w/o PKINIT we have these options (and maybe more): EAP{EAP-TLS{EAP-GSS{GSS-API{GSS-IAKERB}}}} or EAP{EAP-GSS{GSS-API{GSS-TUNNEL{GSS-TLS,GSS-IAKERB}}}} Where "GSS-IAKERB" is a GSS-API mechanism that does Kerberos V KDC exchange proxying as necessary in order to establish service tickets for Kerberos AP exchanges. And where GSS-API channel bindings are used in both cases to bind the Kerberos V AP exchanges to the TLS (or whatever) tunnel. Of course, with PKINIT no tunnelling would be necessary: EAP{EAP-GSS{GSS-API{GSS-IAKERB}}} Nico -- _______________________________________________ SECMECH mailing list SECMECH@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secmech
- [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Bridges Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Ali Fessi
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Jari Arkko
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Jari Arkko
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Jari Arkko
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Clint Chaplin
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… 1und1
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy