Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Bridges
Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu> Thu, 25 August 2005 01:29 UTC
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Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:28:21 -0400
From: Charles Clancy <clancy@cs.umd.edu>
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To: Bernard Aboba <aboba@internaut.com>
Subject: Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Bridges
References: <43074F76.8000604@cs.umd.edu> <20050822044255.GC27685@isc.upenn.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0508220801430.1114@ismene> <35850EE42DFD2824F0DDBBC8@cumulus> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0508221008260.1174@ismene> <1DCACCAC04655B3AFE9733A8@cumulus> <Pine.GSO.4.60.0508221047001.1307@ismene> <20050822154044.GE7789@binky.Central.Sun.COM> <430CA545.3020109@uni-tuebingen.de> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0508241113420.16086@internaut.com> <20050824213010.GO10174@binky.Central.Sun.COM> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0508241436250.21720@internaut.com> <430D0D2B.8050405@cs.umd.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.61.0508241724080.26080@internaut.com>
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Bernard Aboba wrote: >>If the EAP server is the service, then it can do a passthrough Kerberos >>authentication for the EAP client. The client can obtain a TGT and a service >>ticket for the EAP server, and then authenticate to the EAP server using the >>service ticket. The key contained within that service ticket is known only by >>the client and the EAP server, so it could theoretically then be used to >>bootstrap an EAP key derivation, including the info needed by TTLS to do the >>crypto binding. TTLS would then augment the security of these keys using its >>own entropy, and poof. >> >>... or am I missing something? > > > EAP methods need to be "mode independent" which implies that they need to > work the same way regardless of whether an authentication server is > present or not. If an AS is not present, then the EAP server resides on > the NAS, and the EAP peer would be providing a clear text password to the > NAS. > > "AAA Key Management" (draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt-00.txt) talks about > preventing cascading vulnerabilities. One of the requirements is that > compromise of one NAS not compromise long-term credentials. > > Providing a cleartext password to a NAS seems like it would violate that > requirement. Why would the cleartext password ever end up on a NAS? Maybe a picture would help: EAP Client EAP Server KDC -------------------------------------------- TTLS Negotiation <-----------------------> krb5 authentication (EAP server is passthrough) <------------------------------------------> TGT, service ticket <------------------------------------------- service auth <-----------------------> {MK,MSK} = PRF(service key) [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ SECMECH mailing list SECMECH@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secmech
- [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Bridges Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Ali Fessi
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Jari Arkko
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Jari Arkko
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Jari Arkko
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Shumon Huque
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Josh Howlett
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Nicolas Williams
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Salowey, Joe
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy
- RE: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Clint Chaplin
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… 1und1
- Re: [SECMECH] Framework Bindings Vs. Mechanism Br… Charles Clancy