Re: [Sframe] charter feedback

Alexandre GOUAILLARD <> Fri, 04 September 2020 12:22 UTC

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From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD <>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 20:22:05 +0800
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To: Franziskus Kiefer <>
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Subject: Re: [Sframe] charter feedback
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> But the charter can set out the process taken by the WG. And all use cases
> here should profit from this (i.e. making sure that the threat modeling and
> solution for each use case are vetted by other parties, in particular
> academia).

I think our goals are aligned.

> > Right now, emad is working on the conferencing use case with sergio, and
> you might want to liaise with them on that specific topic. One document
> about how SFrame can be used with RTP, and, seprately, with MLS including
> the corresponding threat model is in progress. I think this is what you are
> looking for.
> I currently only know about Is there
> any other draft in progress?

Yes. You might want to contact emad separately to know the status of this.

> Best,
> Franziskus
> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 13:23, Alexandre GOUAILLARD <
>> wrote:
>> Hi franz.,
>> Thank you for your interest and the kind words.
>> "Conferencing" is certainly a topic of interest, and i understand the
>> focus of wire. SFrame can certainly be used in that context.
>> However, there are other use cases than conferencing where media
>> encryption is of interest, including but not limited to
>> streaming/broadcasting and then of course all the hybrid use cases we start
>> seeing emerging (watch parties, webinars, ....).
>> We designed SFrame itself to refer ONLY to the media encryption part, and
>> be as much as possible media transport agnostic, and use case/threat
>> model/trust model agnostic, where the precedent attempt was extremely
>> focussed on RTP-based conferencing.
>> Eventually, each use case (e.g. conferencing) should have
>> additional documents to come up to a full system whose properties could be
>> verified, but we did not want to restrict the charter to a single use case.
>> Right now, emad is working on the conferencing use case with sergio, and
>> you might want to liaise with them on that specific topic. One document
>> about how SFrame can be used with RTP, and, seprately, with MLS including
>> the corresponding threat model is in progress. I think this is what you are
>> looking for.
>> In parallel, work is being done on application to SFrame for
>> streaming/broadcasting and how it relates/overlaps with existing DRM
>> solutions today in the bigger context. This will also hopefully have its
>> own set of document. EVentually all would have the media encryption,
>> SFrame, in common.
>> Hope this helps.
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 6:23 PM Franziskus Kiefer <
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> First, thanks for working on this.
>>> Wire is currently considering sframe for some use cases.
>>> Looking at the charter I noticed two things:
>>> The charter currently doesn't talk about authentication and to which
>>> extent the WG wants to look at it. While authenticity might be implicit
>>> through the used keys the sframe draft currently also uses signatures.
>>> I'm missing a statement about the process followed by the WG. End-to-end
>>> encrypted conferencing is a relatively new topic without much research
>>> around threat models. I therefore think that a process that validates the
>>> threat model and the proposed solution is warranted. This might not have
>>> the same extent as for TLS or MLS, but would still be good to have.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Franziskus
>>> --
>>> Sframe mailing list