Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs
Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Fri, 20 November 2020 16:01 UTC
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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "bernard.aboba@gmail.com" <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>, "sergio.garcia.murillo@cosmosoftware.io" <sergio.garcia.murillo@cosmosoftware.io>
CC: "rlb@ipv.sx" <rlb@ipv.sx>, "sframe@ietf.org" <sframe@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:01:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs
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Hi, If one look at this from the RTP payload level what becomes of potential use and in some case necessary I think are the following. The sender will put one or more IDU into independent SFRAMEs and provide the meta data to it that can include the following: - Media Stream + Encoder instance - Scalability layer and depdendency information - Decoding order - Associated Capture/Presentation time - timestamp for any consumption related time line (if not redundant) - If it represent a switch point (IDR, Intra etc) - Will produce output (Video marker bit type, i.e. this IDU(s) will result in decoded output) (likely for which layers) - Reliability level (How necessary the data is, parameter sets is necessary for any decoding, versus a non-referenced slice). The one or more IDUs is a trade-off if between overhead and what benefits there are to encoded different IDUs in indepdendent SFRAMES. For example encoding H.26x parameterset NALUs independently depend on how one like to use them, or if they should be teamed with their related "slice" NALUS, in a STAP style aggregation of NALUs inside the SFRAME. I think the point is to look at this what would be needed to enable the functionality in the RTP payload format and for the SFUs to be able to correctly select what SFRAMEs to forward to a particular receiver. If some implementation makes is easy for themselves and aggregate more in one SFRAME that should be possible. It is a trade-off to a large degree between functionality, cost of doing repair of missing parts, and complexity to implement. There are some basic level which should be very easy to accomplish and never should be gone below becauase then one is truly throwing away the basic functionalities of RTP. I still think one needs to write a bit of analysis of the different media encoders functionality and what are shared concepts, what have special quirks that needs to be thought about. We also I think need to find the terminolgy for what the different aspects like I listed above really should be called and how they are mapped to different encoders, in audio, video, tactile, etc. I will note that we didn't make much headway in the RTP streams debate before we actually created the taxonomy of that. People where talking past each others. I will also note that a very interesting aspect of the reliability puzzle for these codecs is what you can determine about a missing RTP packet based on that you know which SSRC and sequence number that is missing. So if you have a scalable codec and transmit all the packets on a single SSRC, then a missing sequence number (detected through the gap) will not tell the receiver if it needs the packet urgently or not (such a difference between a base layer or the highest enchancement layer). In some applications that might not matter in otheres it may. So in the later cases you might want to distribute the layers on different SSRCs so that one can immediately determine how important the information is. I think that possibility will exist if this RTP payload format is done correctly. Cheers Magnus Westerlund
- [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Justin Uberti
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Richard Barnes
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Sframe] Partial decodability and IDUs Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Sframe] To tree or not to tree? Joel Alwen