Re: [Shutup] Levels of proposals

Stephen Farrell <> Fri, 04 December 2015 01:19 UTC

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To: Brandon Long <>,, ietf-smtp <>
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From: Stephen Farrell <>
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Subject: Re: [Shutup] Levels of proposals
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This seems like another sensible opinion that doesn't make
overbroad claims about the goodness/badness of what's proposed
to be examined. More of us limiting our posting like this
would be good IMO.


On 04/12/15 00:36, Brandon Long wrote:
> The WG proposal seems to imply taking all IPs out.  The discussion has
> mostly been about submission.
> It seems to me that there are at least three different IPs used, and some
> of these are going to be visible regardless of intent.
> Ie, there is the submission IPs, there are "internal" IPs, and external
> ones.
> Submission IPs seem like the largest level of risk, and from my gross
> understanding of anti-spam, pretty minor.  I'm not sure what the current
> source levels are, but submission IPs would be most useful in the case of
> hijacked account spam or abusive account spam.  Presumably, if spam reports
> about such are forwarded to the MSP, then the MSP can easily store the
> information somewhere other than the easily forged headers and take the
> appropriate action.  Only if the answer is "they don't take action" would
> you need more.
> Also, if the previous thread's list of large MSPs inclusion of submission
> IPs is correct, then >2 out of the top 3 have already removed them (ie,
> only a fraction of Gmail mail has them at this point).
> Internal IPs, this hardly seems controversial.  If any mail system did
> that, not sure if anyone would bat an eye.
> External IPs, ie server to server... I guess one may learn "something" if
> you can tell which submission server they talked to, we certainly have
> servers across the world... but even with 20 odd locations, I doubt that
> would be that specific.
> So, I would recommend concentrating on submission IPs.  I might also
> include a recommendation for submission servers to store the IPs for some
> length of time to allow for abuse handling, or even to include an encrypted
> version in the message.
> Brandon
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