To: Tim Bruijnzeels <tim@ripe.net>
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 <87E65996-2ACD-4A3A-8D20-1C7911CBBB72@tislabs.com>
 <58c60c65-b96c-4984-4ba4-4d4e64e51538@bbn.com>
 <yj9ofur2iqgd.wl%morrowc@ops-netman.net> <m28twudtww.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAL9jLab9Zaz1UjJfjJNmjU3FcMkF+mSYKLj7VGKEydK0FKOjJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4866b582-0016-2136-1dc6-e95946eeff78@bbn.com>
 <99F55C95-7589-4594-B1B1-8988682FBB46@ripe.net>
From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
Message-ID: <67f9b7b7-d490-1671-3b30-8c1ab73d2d12@bbn.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 08:42:57 -0400
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Cc: Chris Morrow <morrowc@ops-netman.net>, sidr <sidr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sidr] two stranded docuemnts - stake time
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Tim,



>
> Although I appreciate that Randy is trying to explain the case in 
> terms anyone can understand, it would be preferable to keep it general.
agreed.
>
>> (Including a parenthetical note about the historical precedent of a 
>> Dutch court order involving RIPE is relevant and might be included.)
>
> If there was such a precedent, but there isn't. I have raised this 
> before, but again...
I am familiar with the incident. While it is true that the court did not 
order RIPE to do anything with RPKI data, the precedent it set has often 
been cited as an indication of what might happen in the future. That's 
why the adverse actions document identifies the following cause for some 
types of actions:

    There is also the possibility that a CA or repository operator may
    be subject to legal measures that compel them to generate "bogus"
    signed objects or remove legitimate repository data.

This is the sort of more formal language I have encouraged Randy to use 
in the LTA use cases doc, to no avail.

Steve

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    <p>Tim,<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:99F55C95-7589-4594-B1B1-8988682FBB46@ripe.net"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
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          <div>Although I appreciate that Randy is trying to explain the
            case in terms anyone can understand, it would be preferable
            to keep it general.</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    agreed.<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:99F55C95-7589-4594-B1B1-8988682FBB46@ripe.net"
      type="cite">
      <div class="">
        <div>
          <div><br class="">
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class=""><span style="font-family: Courier; font-size:
                12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
                font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
                auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none;
                display: inline !important;" class="">(Including a
                parenthetical note about the historical precedent of a
                Dutch court order involving RIPE is relevant and might
                be included.)</span></div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">If there was such a precedent, but there isn't. I
        have raised this before, but again...</div>
    </blockquote>
    I am familiar with the incident. While it is true that the court did
    not order RIPE to do anything with RPKI data, the precedent it set
    has often been cited as an indication of what might happen in the
    future. That's why the adverse actions document identifies the
    following cause for some types of actions:<br>
    <blockquote>There is also the possibility that a CA or repository
      operator may be subject to legal measures that compel them to
      generate "bogus" signed objects or remove legitimate repository
      data.<br>
    </blockquote>
    This is the sort of more formal language I have encouraged Randy to
    use in the LTA use cases doc, to no avail.<br>
    <br>
    Steve<br>
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