Re: [sidr] Burstiness of BGP updates

Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Thu, 17 November 2011 02:01 UTC

Return-Path: <randy@psg.com>
X-Original-To: sidr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: sidr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E084B1F0C64 for <sidr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:01:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.59
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKtlOOzSCWEY for <sidr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881F81F0C44 for <sidr@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rair.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <randy@psg.com>) id 1RQrHl-000AgG-82; Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:01:05 +0000
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:01:04 +0800
Message-ID: <m2ty634ie7.wl%randy@psg.com>
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
To: Russ White <russw@riw.us>
In-Reply-To: <4EC4684B.3030204@riw.us>
References: <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C49308E9E35567@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A1FE9F@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <DCC302FAA9FE5F4BBA4DCAD4656937791452387978@PRVPEXVS03.corp.twcable.com> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A1FEC8@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4EC3125D.4000309@riw.us> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A2061F@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4EC329C6.4090600@riw.us> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A2062E@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4EC32EBE.6030106@riw.us> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A20633@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <E2D346C7800D704DB41ED19D90434DA6320C15DF93@ESESSCMS0358.eemea.ericsson.se> <4EC33E88.9090505@riw.us> <7309FCBCAE981B43ABBE69B31C8D21391A45A20649@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4EC459F0.9070200@riw.us> <CAL9jLabyymUZJRk44Z00UeQsxinN5D-05-7_htmRanYwi7ysvQ@mail.gmail.com> <4EC462E9.7090103@riw.us> <m2wraz4j68.wl%randy@psg.com> <4EC4684B.3030204@riw.us>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI)
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Cc: sidr wg list <sidr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sidr] Burstiness of BGP updates
X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing <sidr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sidr>, <mailto:sidr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sidr>
List-Post: <mailto:sidr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sidr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr>, <mailto:sidr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:01:06 -0000

hi russ,

>>> Security compares what the state currently looks like to what the state
>>> should look like.
>> the problem is how does one know what the state of the system 'should'
>> look like?
> 
> My understanding has always been that the point of any security system
> is provide a secure and verifiable indication of what the system should
> look like in order to compare current events against that standard.

you have been saying that for years.  and i understand your point.  what
i have never understood is *how* you can tell how things 'should' be.

so the current sidr proposals are for what we *know how to do.*  they
are not perfect, but they are a radical improvement on the current
state.

i am very open to clue on how to rigorously define how things 'should'
be, especially if it is rigorously testable given real world
constraints.

randy