Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019)

"Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov> Mon, 02 December 2019 01:35 UTC

Return-Path: <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>
X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A0312011B; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:35:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.102
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SrM1t4Plr8wv; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:35:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from GCC02-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3gcc02on2102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.91.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 279E9120052; Sun, 1 Dec 2019 17:35:28 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=S7ncC1CI12dEDoti8aGmv4u5NyebLTvtdi6tyjT4hfqYyvpkW/28krx6P3vwmsyGbtGoC3tMgdG1+HP0sin7i27bnTM6WqnTZpyTjLW5N+n5tMVEjls23eH8v1Uu9Re6YnpFtf7PUT/0tt/Ad0L4S0noGM39+g+QCIhCQi/9x5B6kJP7692NQo1cgyEL4dE/LayaHhhEYmbNAiR8IZ4cFCAwhASdTed1X/PEaOCkZTmOSgsypWFvoX1k8/LHKFXsizNBO5/fph2Lu3m/O2tpFnfS+Q/QssyS6O2ycZmtuvxbZ0yWaI0OYsSjI3TSMvE8MuggeGN8UbQH/GeT4D5HhA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=AdwmswX1sJ0SdPciusjKx7CAxHTxwUT+kzP6xJaHTnk=; b=cMlDBEkUUnnbAGzuJk4UmKYoYVgC8mT87eBgcX2hogFxvyhtCFo28sfKZDQ15ZbGo4x5qGYAhkvs23yW+VZN6eeGvqd1EeylmL7TpfqxOG76O1bRGmCxPKhIuMI5jpFPQw+L9S711vn5zKT60/ve7sQ/tqgUTtwuykExLMbT+1q2sA6gskCaes4Alcc4Qbz6BLFEeEyA5c9cV9L+5gIXW2cGUIg53kYKYTbMWZfEUhEUyNj6vrSsUG2WEPL2waS7Jju2h78MXZV8dUNFzBfSxetyVWsqUJeATYA5/u/Pf+M8zSSpK/QcrG4D5fuYuW4wgOjw+8wk/K9BjL6eRTOeWw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nist.gov; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nist.gov; dkim=pass header.d=nist.gov; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nist.gov; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=AdwmswX1sJ0SdPciusjKx7CAxHTxwUT+kzP6xJaHTnk=; b=l1uyCBAT+H9cINGp1FPVoyBqJ3h4mCsTYwI7cK+cmikSYu0y2z7KIXBJGblC6Qj9/F2ySp+edIEvOagMHlg3/sm7QVdrZzmVCgPks//lo6/ZMc69cEyURG8l7Qvd6TzmM2pN7wiweJJXvQXyWCZheozScUCCT9uBuTkWMT4Zbfg=
Received: from DM6PR09MB3386.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (20.179.51.19) by DM6PR09MB4398.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (20.179.227.8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2495.18; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:35:25 +0000
Received: from DM6PR09MB3386.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3dc8:c3a3:e7eb:e1ed]) by DM6PR09MB3386.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3dc8:c3a3:e7eb:e1ed%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2474.023; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:35:25 +0000
From: "Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed)" <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
CC: Chris Morrow <morrowc@ops-netman.net>, "sidrops@ietf.org" <sidrops@ietf.org>, "sidrops-chairs@ietf.org" <sidrops-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress@ietf.org>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "keyur@arrcus.com" <keyur@arrcus.com>
Thread-Topic: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019)
Thread-Index: AQHVpWgKNx6EigmA/UCnwNYVbIcclKeluvoAgAAJRgCAAA5hAIAAMjJvgAAIEgCAAAFQhA==
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 01:35:24 +0000
Message-ID: <DM6PR09MB3386C4CB84D407F32AA90F3E84430@DM6PR09MB3386.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
References: <87tv6jbyjd.wl-morrowc@ops-netman.net> <25CB2E64-D0B5-4D5F-A59F-4864D1C340E7@psg.com>,<m2blsr1qzl.wl-randy@psg.com>
In-Reply-To: <m2blsr1qzl.wl-randy@psg.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov;
x-originating-ip: [132.163.220.243]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c1e59f8d-c474-453a-48a5-08d776c7e77c
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR09MB4398:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DM6PR09MB439873953ED5199EB258840284430@DM6PR09MB4398.namprd09.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-forefront-prvs: 0239D46DB6
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(366004)(136003)(346002)(376002)(396003)(39860400002)(199004)(189003)(66556008)(64756008)(186003)(52536014)(8936002)(76116006)(86362001)(256004)(14444005)(66446008)(66946007)(66476007)(99286004)(14454004)(91956017)(11346002)(446003)(4326008)(6506007)(102836004)(81156014)(76176011)(7696005)(81166006)(71190400001)(71200400001)(33656002)(5660300002)(6246003)(26005)(8676002)(54906003)(478600001)(6916009)(2906002)(316002)(66066001)(55016002)(9686003)(3846002)(25786009)(6116002)(305945005)(74316002)(229853002)(7736002)(6436002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM6PR09MB4398; H:DM6PR09MB3386.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: fos608aF6p343iQ87M4gtVPO3+2XbL/77H6dZfNuYdQ0LyqKazmWUqiltT0TKXWdTVSL+HpChMctR14himN/mJDyO8xZl51QvLo566U++SuSO/Ve/KNXmBr7Iyee3oVLeaVWmBKpMtGUvtT2C6e+Ut/oZgAyzxeyye8WdMkTgxmXt/g+84rYQCCRGuL0b7Q16Z/a8WOf5QWyaauOYw+AiuFQuyfmUOTZDd1CEGtxq7oVSxlAYVo/IGAWSRSjpeE7l8qvtQbhhK3bizyauJyad5X46jLf/5tZX9KI0cVXxoPH2EWF/D2UTXcbGcryn1mkzQgqF29bUyHx5BCYylZ78hnWr69RLiSpYF4EE/GDOxNlJjlNySrJgn4xhx4Gmr6ZqPnQm1k2dqVo83CHgAvsPkD+IoVvLWtDSH1/pZGZV9PW85fNXRw5RmjWrHrdLLfF
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c1e59f8d-c474-453a-48a5-08d776c7e77c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Dec 2019 01:35:24.9676 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: B65dI+mVKVqoc30fPTyrhkpyGxeNyD0HuuY9vpu3Mavkc+HNbvdCwsWN47DPbbrp/awvxSIJwF4Ao8/CIsYGWw==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB4398
Subject: Re: [Sidrops] WGLC for draft-ietf-sidrops-ov-egress-00.txt - ENDS 11/25/2019 (November 25 2019)
X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG <sidrops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sidrops>, <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/sidrops/>
List-Post: <mailto:sidrops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops>, <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 01:35:34 -0000

> My problem was with these two sentences:
>>
>> #1
>> "Configurations may have complex policy where the final announced
>>    origin AS may not be easily predicted before all policies have been
>>    run."
>>
>> Is it not the same as simply saying:
>> Configurations may have complex policy where the final announced
>>    origin AS is determined only after all policies have been run.
>>
>> Why not state that and keep it simple?
>
>because it is the inability to predict which is important.

In my understanding, the entire premise of the draft is that the operator
has created ROA with the appropriate origin AS whatever the complex
policies and exogenous data may be. Is it not?  
Then why do you insist on "inability to predict" the origin AS?
Seems contradictory to me. 

>
>> #2
>> "Therefore it SHOULD be possible to specify an origin validation
>>  policy which MUST BE run after such non-deterministic policies."
>>
>> What does it mean to say "specify origin validation policy"?
>
>> The operator knows their complex policies and can determine
>> the origin AS that would result after the policies are applied.
>
>no.  that is point.  as stated before, exogenous data can make the
>result not deteminable from analysis of the configuration.
>

"not deteminable" by the AS operator? How? This needs to be illustrated with an example. 
Then the draft needs to explain if the origin AS is not determinable,
then was ROA not created? If the ROA cannot be created, then the draft requiring
OV on egress is hard to comprehend.

I may be missing something. But what is it?

Sriram