Re: [Sidrops] rfc8210bis further review - question 4

Job Snijders <job@fastly.com> Sat, 09 March 2024 12:52 UTC

Return-Path: <job@fastly.com>
X-Original-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03FDC14F6B1 for <sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 04:52:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.104
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastly.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kHQEZA5viKIO for <sidrops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 04:52:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com (mail-ej1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24C5AC14F5EF for <sidrops@ietf.org>; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 04:52:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a450bedffdfso386838766b.3 for <sidrops@ietf.org>; Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:52:49 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastly.com; s=google; t=1709988768; x=1710593568; darn=ietf.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GSAJhMD9S/DhA2SsA8hk97D7wQ84lb8r1v8XbDPxiUw=; b=atOADVnd1rN3ctBKTb7XCn7wEzZoi3/fxaKjxutdiPsgMsGg4aDZNdt7WSI4+L572V Q+yqJGiakpr4SonvBS7ByCRj3kfEFJbEQ9alhE9iQNsa3KX903UhKU8wGrAzlHmOQV4Y 4dZXO1AMt7QNhHSij8bNa2tkajdI6V5lgsfLU=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709988768; x=1710593568; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=GSAJhMD9S/DhA2SsA8hk97D7wQ84lb8r1v8XbDPxiUw=; b=XUNxnOb5OMRKFY+6JHz9YImCLz+NXRjnoK/R/UhnMKh+f4n5aUuGTZKPKnNVC6xPca a5Awutv3Kiu+UUwWch2sLsMJVEbEo+nLL6w/qhWq27h0KtIRfJ+uKGaxpu4TjyOMW6c/ ROu9Ms1LlSQwcu5VVt+RGYxcYO8B2APcZxlBr7WDHmwOS6MPFVtbLJpc+EnyqJgXH3xm titKmxbKPIM5fNHkDtSS7gaExIzmnDlbp2JpCGkYJ5ZLPQ7OL3FUE0MMEUpN4zzulmNM DxFFirU2xJoFlvxHOh9A/WXAIbCrF8cJnIhmqOGbUGHXkOaxOyxbKjgXZxFzVJOrINM+ l8YQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx0+F9ANZSQCVRuFJ4dbmNBo5AKQ+5O7d87YS0Rd1bsModZWVP3 shmzsQWJSsJ03cA16M7giHRDlBdLWThjbj0Sh5DnGw2CQwa5DgJ9utlXvXV9tMDJom7H4BMqjzd P4tb+993ekZW3mZi8/lUaVg2deTJC7kif2LTLWlYc+rjuRQrOTZXAAty6zKyMr+aWKPkW59zJFS zzRzlrkld7Ey7Ncxny/xpJiXpS
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGwBKmwDfqLAu5F7A4x1Q+gxsCFv0JI27X71HMe6zEem5DBpaZS8PDqxmMbsngMuoqgmFIoqw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:452:b0:a45:ab75:7628 with SMTP id e18-20020a170906045200b00a45ab757628mr874498eja.52.1709988767662; Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:52:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from snel ([2a10:3781:276:3:16f6:d8ff:fe47:2eb7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m22-20020a1709066d1600b00a451d07711csm858834ejr.82.2024.03.09.04.52.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 09 Mar 2024 04:52:47 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 13:52:45 +0100
From: Job Snijders <job@fastly.com>
To: sidrops@ietf.org
Message-ID: <ZexbncnxQFnMipa1@snel>
References: <ZexJxZYsgNGth_Q7@snel> <ZexN0VtykWRlmGvq@snel> <ZexXrjeni3FRaZ3-@snel>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <ZexXrjeni3FRaZ3-@snel>
X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sidrops/CezD9nJFlP56o8zfTGLznGjr62s>
Subject: Re: [Sidrops] rfc8210bis further review - question 4
X-BeenThere: sidrops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: A list for the SIDR Operations WG <sidrops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sidrops>, <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/sidrops/>
List-Post: <mailto:sidrops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidrops>, <mailto:sidrops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2024 12:52:54 -0000

Dear all,

Question 4
==========

Section 11 "ROA PDU Race Minimization" talks about how 'an initial full
load' might cause issues, and therefor the cache should send the PDUs in
a specific order and also try to group the PDUs together in a specific way.

But this protocol also has an 'End of Data' marker, which is a strong
signal that the router received a complete and full load, after which
the router can commit to using the received data and commence convergence.

It seems to me that a potential for race conditions is avoided by
recommending/mandating the router to buffer up the cache's response
until it sees the End-of-Data marker. And of course that caches don't
needlessly sprinkle ROAs for the same prefix across different Cache
Responses.

Issues in 'time delay' can be avoided by framing RTR as a
delta-delimited (not time-dependent) protocol, which it of course is.
Reading RTR PDUs off the wire straight into the route decision engine
without waiting for the End-of-Data marker is what may cause issues.  I
expect that the router can do various pre-processing while reading &
waiting for the end-of-data marker, so I suspect promoting the
end-of-marker to be the pivot point, doesn't need to cause additional
delays.

Thoughts?

Kind regards,

Job