Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and… (new subject)
Saúl Ibarra Corretgé <saul@ag-projects.com> Fri, 02 November 2012 15:53 UTC
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From: Saúl Ibarra Corretgé <saul@ag-projects.com>
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Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:53:47 +0100
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To: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>
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Cc: Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>, "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com>, "simple@ietf.org" <simple@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and… (new subject)
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On Nov 2, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Emil Ivov wrote: > Hey all, > > Since it's rant time ... > > On 02.11.12, 15:20, Ben Campbell wrote: >> (as individual) >> >> On Nov 2, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> >> wrote: >> >>>> I'd love to see a better model endorsed by SIMPLE and then >>>> happily implement it. I think we do share this goal :-) >>> >>> Sure we agree here. The key is: reusing SIMPLE/XCAP specs? or >>> making something better from scratch (after learning from current >>> SIMPLE/XMPP specs)? >> >> Do you really believe nothing is salvageable? For example, would you >> jettison all of the below? >> >> -- Using SIP in the first place -- SIP Events -- RLS -- SIP Message >> -- MSRP -- XCAP -- etc > > I've never really understood how one could justify the use of a > completely different protocol to send IMs ... as if SIP was not complex > and evolved enough to handle this. And then that new protocols is just > so awesome that one can't have different chat sessions with different > people unless they setup different connections/sockets for every > conversation. Seriously? > If memory serves correctly, you could stay connected with your relay and send all sessions through it, since session multiplexing over a single TCP connection is supported. > Then, because the above was clearly not fun enough, we add yet another > completely different protocol for storing contacts lists. > > I don't know the history but the result is just way beyond my understanding. > > XMPP, MSN, Yahoo! Messenger, Gadu-Gadu, ICQ, AIM (before and after they > converged in OSCAR), Skype, they all managed to handle IM, presence and > contact storage with a single protocol. > > SIP needed three. > Very good point. > Today those are implemented within different server-side applications > that then need to be deployed together. They need to be configured to > share user bases and policies. This hinders deployment and .. well ... > almost no one does it. > > If there's a remake then could we please consider consolidating the > whole thing? > >>> From the discussions so far, it sounds like most of the complaints >>> are in the area of reusing user lists between clients (e.g. contact >>> lists, presence rules, etc). Do people really hate the entire >>> SIMPLE suite, or is it just an XCAP issue. >> >> If the scope of the work is "start over from scratch", then it seems >> like we would be better served starting with XMPP. > > We've seen relative ease of adoption with solutions of this kind: > > draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax > > I am by no means insisting that a similar model has to be adopted by a > SIMPLE successor but it has to be at least that easy to deploy. > Preferably easier. > Thanks for your input Emil! Regards, -- Saúl Ibarra Corretgé AG Projects
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and.… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and.… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and.… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and.… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Roy, Radhika R CIV (US)
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Emil Ivov
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and…… Adrian Georgescu
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and.… Mary Barnes
- Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and.… Mary Barnes