Re: [Sip] SIPit 20 survey summary

"Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net> Sun, 29 April 2007 14:35 UTC

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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:35:55 +0200
From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>
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Subject: Re: [Sip] SIPit 20 survey summary
To: Jeroen van Bemmel <jbemmel@zonnet.nl>, fluffy@cisco.com, fwmiller@cornfed.com
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Hi Jeroen, 

I thought that Brian's message was adequate. For some reasons certain based SIP mechanisms have not widely been implemented. Some things take more time than others. 

I would also like to hear whether there are truely barriers for adoption or whether it just takes some time before we see certain features getting implemented. 

I would like to understand the complexity of the proposed mechanisms, if you see some. I am obviously in favor of simplifications.

Ciao
hannes

> Hi Hannes,
> 
> I was responding to Brian's message. He basically says: SIPit results show
> that the mechanisms needed to implement location conveyance are not widely
> implemented yet, we need to tell implementors to hurry it up
> 
> I question whether that approach works, and turn it around by asking: why 
> are these mechanisms not implemented widely?
> 
> Personally I believe a significant part of the answer lies in the
> complexity 
> of the proposed mechanisms, architecure, etc. So instead of trying to push
> the market to adopt the solution that is now on the table, perhaps we
> should 
> look into what we can do to lower the barriers for adoption
> 
> Regards,
> Jeroen
> 
> Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
> > Hi Frank,
> > Hi Jeroen,
> > Hi Juha,
> > Hi all
> >
> > what exactly is your complaint? Are you unhappy about
> > * XML encoding of location information
> > * location information carried in the body instead of the header
> > * number of location shapes (see
> >
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-geopriv-pdif-lo-profile-06.txt)
> > * the inability of GPS to work in certain environments
> > * Geopriv location and privacy architecture
> > * Ecrit emergency services architecture
> > ?
> >
> > Ciao
> > Hannes
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:23:42 -0600
> > Von: "Frank W. Miller" <fwmiller@cornfed.com>
> > An: Cullen Jennings <fluffy@cisco.com>
> > CC: \'IETF SIP List\' <sip@ietf.org>, discussion@sipforum.org, Juha
> > Heinanen <jh@tutpro.com>, sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu, \'Robert
> > Sparks\' <rjsparks@estacado.net> Betreff: Re: [Sip] SIPit 20 survey
> > summary
> >
> >>
> >> Acknowledged.  However, if we're talking about adding messaging
> >> infrastructure to SIP, then the discussion is quite relevant here.  I
> >> for one would vote for a simpler mechanism than multipart MIME XML
> >> blah blah blah.  With regards to Keith's comments, I would love to
> >> sit down and provide an alternative proposal but I just don't have
> >> the time to do it.  With all due respect, I'll implement whatever
> >> the standards committee comes up with, but I don't think its
> >> unreasonable for me or anyone else to express concern about protocol
> >> that is obviously designed by committee and obviously more
> >> complicated that it probably has to be.
> >>
> >> FM
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, 2007-04-28 at 15:23 -0700, Cullen Jennings wrote:
> >>> There has been an incredible amount of work on this topic across
> >>> many standard organizations including the IETF. Before people start
> >>> in on discussing this in - I strongly suggest they might want to
> >>> read some of the requirements, uses cases, drafts, and mailing list
> >>> discussions in ECRIT and GEOPRIV. Please keep in mind the charters
> >>> of ECRIT/ GEOPRIV/SIP and take the discussion to the right working
> >>> group.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 28, 2007, at 2:35 AM, Juha Heinanen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Jeroen van Bemmel writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Especially for the use case of emergency calls, would it not be
> >>>>> wise to
> >>>>> select a much more simple approach/syntax, e.g.:
> >>>>> Emergency-Location: lat=x; lon=y
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So no XML, no mime/multipart, as simple as possible (no complex
> >>>>> semantics,
> >>>>> usage-rules etc), something to reduce the barrier of
> >>>>> implementation/deployment, and to reduce the risk for interop
> >>>>> issues?
> >>>>
> >>>> i fully agree with this.  we should follow KISS principle here.
> >>>> it is highly unlikely that sip ua vendors will even TRY implement
> >>>> such a complex protocol.
> >>>>
> >>>> another reason why it will not get implemented is that sip uas
> >>>> don't know where they are located.  gps does not work well indoors
> >>>> and mobile
> >>>> operators at least here have refused to make public coordinates of
> >>>> their
> >>>> base stations.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- juha
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> >>>> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
> >>>> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
> >>>> Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> >>> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
> >>> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
> >>> Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> >> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
> >> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
> >> Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> > This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol
> > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip
> > Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip 


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