Re: [Sipbrandy] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> Thu, 07 March 2019 14:59 UTC

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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 08:59:20 -0600
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
CC: Datatracker on behalf of Benjamin Kaduk <noreply@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec@ietf.org>, <sipbrandy@ietf.org>, <sipbrandy-chairs@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Gonzalo Camarillo <gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 08:56:48AM -0600, Ben Campbell wrote:
> Hi Benjamin,
> 
> One comment inline:
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ben.
> 
> > On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Datatracker on behalf of Benjamin Kaduk <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-07: Discuss
> > 
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> > 
> > 
> > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> > 
> > 
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > I think we need to have a bit more clarity on exactly how/what parts of
> > 4916 are updated (per Section 4.3).  Thta is, we have some text that's
> > indented as if it's supposed to be logically inserted into a "revised
> > 4916", but no indication of where or whether anything else is removed.
> > Furthermore, that text includes section references to portions of 4916
> > that are incorrect; normally an Update: would point to such text and say
> > "this is removed" or "this is replaced by <x>", and the current
> > formulation looks like it's constructing a virtual document that is
> > internally inconsistent.
> 
> I m willing to believe the draft needs more detail on what changes in 4916. But if you are asking that it be in the form of patches, that is, “old text” to be removed and “new text” that replaces it, then I don’t think that’s ever been a hard requirement. I think it’s perfectly okay to discuss the update conceptually.
> 
> I personally prefer the latter in a lot of cases, but I think both approaches are okay. The patch approach would make sense if we actually rendered patched RFCs, but we don’t.

I'm not insisting on patches, no.
The particular trigger for me here was the apparent construction of a
compound document that is internally inconsistent.  Even de-indenting some
of the text here might be enough to avoid that conflict (though I didn't
actually check), as then we would have "commentary surrounding the update"
that is not intended to be actually in force as part of the updated
document.

-Benjamin