Re: [sixpac] Capability and preference expression and interrogation

<Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com> Thu, 10 March 2011 11:27 UTC

Return-Path: <Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: sixpac@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23FA3A68F0 for <sixpac@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 03:27:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.849
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, GB_I_LETTER=-2]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EeGjXTgeBJR0 for <sixpac@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 03:27:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mgw-sa02.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.1.48]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BE53A687B for <sixpac@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 03:27:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from vaebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh106.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.32]) by mgw-sa02.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p2ABT0TH022044; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:29:00 +0200
Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.6]) by vaebh106.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:28:53 +0200
Received: from 008-AM1MMR1-002.mgdnok.nokia.com (65.54.30.57) by NOK-am1MHUB-02.mgdnok.nokia.com (65.54.30.6) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.255.0; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:28:52 +0100
Received: from 008-AM1MPN1-002.mgdnok.nokia.com ([169.254.2.164]) by 008-AM1MMR1-002.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.57]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.002; Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:28:30 +0100
From: <Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com>
To: <joe.hildebrand@webex.com>, <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>, <sixpac@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sixpac] Capability and preference expression and interrogation
Thread-Index: AQHL3JsI43ro3cfdNkyvGJk8qZV02pQh1NaAgASdonA=
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:28:29 +0000
Message-ID: <F9E2FDAF48D4544F874A56A3A8BD68B1010AE731@008-AM1MPN1-002.mgdnok.nokia.com>
References: <4D748C04.9090509@omnitor.se> <C99A3207.4C4F3%joe.hildebrand@webex.com>
In-Reply-To: <C99A3207.4C4F3%joe.hildebrand@webex.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.162.58.206]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2011 11:28:53.0724 (UTC) FILETIME=[561D81C0:01CBDF16]
X-Nokia-AV: Clean
Subject: Re: [sixpac] Capability and preference expression and interrogation
X-BeenThere: sixpac@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The SIXPAC \(SIP Interworking with XMPP in Presence Aware Clients\) list is dedicated to discussion of dual-stack SIP/XMPP user agents." <sixpac.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac>, <mailto:sixpac-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sixpac>
List-Post: <mailto:sixpac@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sixpac-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac>, <mailto:sixpac-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:27:45 -0000

Hi,
I'm now updating the sip-xmpp-coex-reqs draft.  

Gunnar, regarding your proposal, do you think it would not be sufficient to use XEP-115 (for detailed capabilities) or just XMPP presence for finding out the capabilities of the other endpoint?

Simo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sixpac-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:sixpac-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of ext Joe Hildebrand
> Sent: 07 March, 2011 15:56
> To: Gunnar Hellström; sixpac@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sixpac] Capability and preference expression and
> interrogation
> 
> In XMPP, this sort of thing is done with XEP-115
> (http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0115.html).  It's end-to-end, and is
> borne
> as a part of the presence of a device.  115 usually takes folks a while
> to
> get used to, so please set aside the time to do more than skim.
> 
> 
> On 3/7/11 12:40 AM, "Gunnar Hellström" <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>;
> wrote:
> 
> > The requirement to express the capability of XMPP messaging in SIP
> described
> > below also may need  an extension for declaration of
> capability
> > details.
> 
> REQ-y: Negotiable features  in XMPP must be possible to express and
> >
> interrogate at SIP Session establishment level.
> 
> Use case:  Alice want to
> > send a nice HTML-formatted invitation letter to
> Bob. She wonders if she can
> > do it in a SIP session with messaging
> enabled. Therefore, when she calls Bob,
> > she indicates a desire to use
> Rich formatted messages. The resonse shows that
> > Bob has no capability
> for such features, so Alice decides to send an e-mail
> > instead and
> discuss it in a plain vice phone
> > call.
> 
> Gunnar
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> Gunnar Hellström skrev
> > 2011-02-08 20:16:
> > I think it is important that the capability to do XMPP
> > messaging with
> > a SIP endpoint is expressed in regular SIP ways, so that
> > capability
> > checking for that function even can be done before a session is
> >
> > initiated, and also during session initiation. E.g. the functionality
> >
> > should have the possibility to influence the outcome of caller
> > preferences
> > - callee capabilities interrogations (RFC 3840, RFC 3841 ).
> >
> > It seems to me
> > that that is easily achieved, but that is not the issue
> > at the moment, when
> > collecting requirements.
> > I cannot find exactly that need described in the
> > current requirements,
> > so I suggest to add a requirement like this:
> >
> >
> > REQ-x: The capability or preference to initiate and accept XMPP
> > messages
> > must be possible to express and interrogate by the standard
> > mechanisms for
> > such functions in SIP for caller preferences and callee
> > capabilities. ( RFC
> > 3840, RFC 3841 etc.)
> >
> > Use case: Alice want to call Bob to have his view of
> > some new poems
> > she has written. She has a SIP phone with XMPP chat
> > addition. She
> > makes sure that her phone expresses a preference for audio
> > and text
> > messaging in the call. Bob has two phones registered on his
> > address.
> > One only with audio functionality, the other with both audio and
> > text
> > messaging. The SIP server can match the Alice's preferences with the
> >
> > capabilities of Bob's phones, and direct the call to the device where
> > he
> > can receive and read the poems and comment them in their voice
> >
> > conversation.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > I am not sure if similar standardised features are
> > available for XMPP
> > so that it is relevant to express the symmetric
> > requirements on the
> > XMPP side.
> >
> > Gunnar
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> > --
> >
> > Simo.Veikkolainen@nokia.com skrev 2011-01-26 21:20:
> >> You're right,
> > we should get some discussion going on.
> >>
> >> I have just uploaded a new
> > version of
> >> draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs, which can be found at
> >
> >>
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-
> reqs-02.t
> > xt
> >>
> >> The changes in this version address the comments made by Peter
> >>
> > Musgrave (mainly clarifications):
> >>
> >> In REQ-1: ³SIP contact² changed to
> > ³SIP address²
> >>
> >> In REQ-3: "It must be possible to include SIP real-time
> > media related
> >> contact and status in XMPP presence information." changed to
> > "It must
> >> be possible to include SIP address and status information in XMPP
> >
> >> presence."
> >>
> >> And a couple of typos.
> >>
> >> One further comment made by
> > Peter might merit a bit more discussion,
> >> namely saying something about
> > cases where two SIP devices are
> >> registered to the same AOR and two XMPP
> > clients are logged in. This
> >> is related to the discussion we had an
> > correlation, and whether or
> >> not it should be mentioned in the charter or
> > not.
> >>
> >> Opinions on this would be helpful.
> >>
> >> Also, please take a fresh
> > look at the draft and express your opinions
> >> on whether the approach in
> > general makes sense, do you agree with the
> >> use cases and requirements, is
> > something missing etc.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Simo
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original
> > Message-----
> >> From: ext IETF I-D Submission Tool
> > [mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org]
> >> Sent: 26 January, 2011 22:05
> >> To:
> > Veikkolainen Simo (Nokia-MS/Helsinki)
> >> Cc: Isomaki Markus
> > (Nokia-CIC/Espoo)
> >> Subject: New Version Notification for
> >>
> > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02
> >>
> >>
> >> A new version of I-D,
> > draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs-02.txt
> >> has been successfully
> > submitted by Simo Veikkolainen and posted to
> >> the IETF repository.
> >>
> >>
> > Filename:     draft-veikkolainen-sip-xmpp-coex-reqs
> >> Revision:     02
> >>
> > Title:         Requirements and Use Cases for Combining SIP Based
> >>
> > Real-time Media Sessions With XMPP Based Instant Messaging and
> >> Presence
> > Service.
> >> Creation_date:     2011-01-26
> >> WG ID:         Independent
> > Submission
> >> Number_of_pages: 8
> >>
> >> Abstract:
> >> This memo defines use
> > cases and requirements for combining Session
> >> Initiation Protocol (SIP)
> > based real-time media sessions with
> >> Extensible Messaging and Presence
> > Protocol (XMPP) based instant
> >> messaging and presence services in a seamless
> > manner.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The IETF Secretariat.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >> sixpac mailing list
> >>
> > sixpac@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sixpac mailing list
> >
> > sixpac@ietf.org
> >
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac
> _________________________________
> > ______________
> sixpac mailing
> > list
> sixpac@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac
> 
> 
> --
> Joe Hildebrand
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sixpac mailing list
> sixpac@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sixpac