Re: [Slim] Proposed 5.4 text

Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> Wed, 22 November 2017 07:17 UTC

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From: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:17:18 -0800
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To: =?UTF-8?Q?Gunnar_Hellstr=C3=B6m?= <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
Cc: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>, Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, slim@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Slim] Proposed 5.4 text
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Gunnar said:

"A non-sign language tag with video media is interpreted as a view of
a speaking
person"

[BA] I believe that Paul pointed out that such a need can be met by asking
for audio with the non-sign language tag and RFC 5888 lip sync grouping,
with no language tag for the video.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Gunnar Hellström <
gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> wrote:

> Randall,
>
> 1. You dropped one sentence from the first paragraph in my latest proposal:
>
> "A non-sign language tag with video media is interpreted as a view of a
>  speaking person."
>
> It was a result of the previous discussion and reasoning, and I think it
> should be reinserted.
>
> 2. You also changed the title proposal from " 5.4 Media, Language and
> Modality indications" to "5.4 Usage Notes"
>
> I think it is better to have a title that tells about the topic of the
> paragraph. I suggest to use the title I proposed, but I can accept yours if
> you have a good reason for the change.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gunnar
>
> Den 2017-11-22 kl. 03:17, skrev Bernard Aboba:
>
> Looks good to me.
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Randall Gellens <
> rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> wrote:
>
>> I agree.  I made a few minor editorial changes (e.g., moving some text to
>> a new paragraph):
>>
>> 5.4.  Usage Notes
>>
>>    A sign language tag with a video media stream is interpreted as an
>>    indication for sign language in the video stream.  A non-sign
>>    language tag with a text media stream is interpreted as an
>>    indication for written language in the text stream.  A non-sign
>>    language tag with an audio media stream is interpreted as an
>>    indication for spoken language in the audio stream.
>>
>>    This document does not define any other use for language tags in
>>    video media (such as how to indicate visible captions in the video
>>    stream).
>>
>>    In the IANA registry of language subtags per BCP 47 [RFC5646], a
>>    language subtag with a Type field "extlang" combined with a Prefix
>>    field value "sgn" indicates a sign language tag.  The absense of
>>    such "sgn" prefix indicates a non-sign language tag.
>>
>>    This document does not define the use of sign language tags in text
>>    or audio media.
>>
>>    This document does not define the use of language tags in media
>>    other than interactive streams of audio, video, and text (such as
>>    "message" or "application").  Such use could be supported by future
>>    work or by application agreement.
>>
>>
>> At 11:50 PM +0100 11/21/17, Gunnar Hellström wrote:
>>
>>  Den 2017-11-21 kl. 23:08, skrev Randall Gellens:
>>>
>>>  Based on the text and comments from Gunnar, brian, Paul, and Bernard,
>>>> here is what I propose to replace section 5.4 with:
>>>>
>>>>  5.4. Usage Notes
>>>>
>>>>  A sign language tag with a video stream is interpreted as an
>>>>  indication for sign language in the video stream. A non-sign
>>>>  language tag with text media is interpreted as an indication for
>>>>  written language. A non-sign language tag with audio media is
>>>>  interpreted as an indication for spoken language.
>>>>
>>>>  In the IANA registry of language subtags per BCP 47 [RFC5646], a
>>>>  language subtag with a Type field "extlang" combined with a Prefix
>>>>  field value "sgn" indicates a sign language tag. The absense of
>>>>  such "sgn" prefix indicates a non-sign language tag. This document
>>>>  does not define any other use for language tags in video media
>>>>  (such as how to indicate visible captions).
>>>>
>>>>  This document does not define the use of sign language tags in text
>>>>  or audio media.
>>>>
>>>>  This document does not define the use of language tags in media
>>>>  other than interactive streams of audio, video, and text (such as
>>>>  "message" or "application").
>>>>
>>>>  <GH> Good, I hope that "non-sign language" can be an accepted term.
>>>  I provide a slightly modified 5.4 proposal, with a bit more consistent
>>> language in the first paragraph, and the mentioning of further work or
>>> application agreement reinserted. I think that is better than just saying
>>> that it is not defined. I also added the spoken language in video is a view
>>> of a speaker according to recent discussion in another mail.
>>>  I really hope to find that we are converging now.
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------new text ------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>  5.4 Media, Language and Modality indications
>>>
>>>  A sign language tag with video media is interpreted as an
>>>  indication for sign language in the video stream. A non-sign
>>>  language tag with text media is interpreted as an indication for
>>>  written language. A non-sign language tag with audio media is
>>>  interpreted as an indication for spoken language. A non-sign
>>>  language tag with video media is interpreted as a view of a
>>>  speaking person. This document does not define any other
>>>  use for language tags in video media (such as how to indicate
>>>  visible captions in the video stream).
>>>
>>>  In the IANA registry of language subtags per BCP 47 [RFC5646], a
>>>  language subtag with a Type field "extlang" combined with a Prefix
>>>  field value "sgn" indicates a sign language tag. The absense of
>>>  such "sgn" prefix indicates a non-sign language tag.
>>>
>>>  This document does not define the use of sign language tags in text
>>>  or audio media. This document does not define the use of language tags
>>> in media
>>>  other than interactive streams of audio, video, and text (such as
>>>  "message" or "application"). Such use may be supported by further work
>>>  or application specific agreements.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>  Gunnar
>>>  --
>>>  -----------------------------------------
>>>  Gunnar Hellström
>>>  Omnitor
>>>  <mailto:gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
>>>  +46 708 204 288
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  SLIM mailing list
>>>  SLIM@ietf.org
>>>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Randall Gellens
>> Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>> -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>> Never knock the way the other cat swings.
>>                          --Neal Cassady
>>
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------
> Gunnar Hellström
> Omnitorgunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
> +46 708 204 288
>
>