Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language (Section 5.4)

[Gunnar Hellström <[e-mail]>]

Doug,

Thanks for pointing at the Zxxx script subtag for non-written content.

I think we can document the use of it for the view of a speaker in video 
media when indicated by a spoken/written language tag.

I have tried before to propose to use the script subtag to indicate 
written language, but got opposition because many languages have their 
main script subtag suppressed. However, the language around suppressed 
script subtags indicate that there are cases when the use is 
appropriate. We  can document that text captions in the video stream 
shall (or should) be indicated with a script subtag.

But, to keep it simple, the use of Zxxx scrit subtag on the view of a 
speaker should be sufficient.

That could conclude the unusual combinations:

1. Spoken/written tag in video media, can mean to see a speaking person, 
or to provide captions overlayed on video.

When the intention is to indicate overlayed captions in the video 
stream, the script subtag Zxxx SHALL be used.

Otherwise, a view of a speaking person is indicated.

2. Signed language tag in audio media,
means audio from a person using sign language, and SHOULD only be used 
for rare cases when it has some relevance for language communication.

3. Sign language tag in text media.

SHALL be used for any approximate text coded representation of sign 
language or fingerspelling.

I suggest that these conclusions form the base for a redefined section 5.4.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
About my efforts to discuss modality in the language list: The list was 
closed when I tried to subscribe or send to it, and I did not see any 
response on a question I sent about how to get a discussion on the 
modality topic.

But I am happy now with your pointing out the Zxxx script. a 
spoken/written language with Zxxx script is quite obviously not written 
and not signed, so then it is spoken. Good.

Thanks

Gunnar


Den 2017-02-14 kl. 00:10, skrev Doug Ewell:
> Gunnar Hellström wrote:
>
>> But captions overlayed on video in the media stream is a used
>> technology so it would be good to be able to specify it.
>> That we cannot do it is again a sad effect of the language tags not
>> distinguishing between spoken and written modality.
> se-Latn = Swedish written in Latin script
> se-Cyrl = Swedish written in Cyrillic script
> se-Maya = Swedish written in Mayan hieroglyphs
>
> se-Zxxx = Swedish, explicitly not written
>
> "se-Zxxx, fi-Latn" = content includes non-written Swedish plus Finnish
> written in Latin script
>
> Examples of multiple streams of content, such as video in one language
> that is subtitled in another, call for multiple language tags. That is
> not a shortcoming or failure of the language tag mechanism. See RFC
> 5646, Section 4.3.
>
> All of this was discussed in the WG by the same parties.
>
>> I once had an ambition to try to specify a notation for that to be
>> added to BCP 47, but did not succeed to get any real discussion going
>> on the topic.
>   
> I searched the ietf-languages archives and did not find any sort of post
> or proposal from you. I forwarded one of your messages from SLIM to that
> list in November 2015, expecting you to follow up with a proposal, but
> nothing materialized.
>   
> --
> Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org
>
>
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Gunnar Hellström
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