Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"

Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> Wed, 10 January 2018 16:20 UTC

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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:20:28 -0800
To: Gunnar Hellstrom <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
From: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
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Subject: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
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In thinking about the issue, I agree with Gunnar 
that the "or both" is not the correct fix.  I 
have reworded the sentence to read:

    When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
    language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
    stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
    specify the 'hlang-send' and/or 'hlang-recv' attributes for the
    direction(s) intended for interactive communication.

I believe this clarifies the usage (which is that 
the attributes are set for the direction(s) in 
which interactive communication is intended).


At 7:25 AM -0800 1/10/18, Randall Gellens wrote:

>  The text seems clear to me that it is per media 
> stream.  It says "each media stream primarily 
> intended for human language communication".
>
>  At 12:39 PM +0100 1/10/18, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote:
>
>>   No, the proposed change is wrong.
>>   The reason why it says "one" for the 
>> asymmetrical  case is that the rule is stated 
>> per media only. In the asymmetrical case you 
>> have hlang-send in one media and hlang-recv in 
>> another media.
>>
>>   By the discussion now, I think it is evident 
>> that a better explanation is needed. It is 
>> easy to forget that the wording is per media.
>>
>>   (You can of course imagine a case when you 
>> want to offer both symmetric and asymmetric 
>> use for selection by the answerer, but then 
>> you also need the possibility to set 
>> preference between language in different media 
>> that we have discussed a lot but not included. 
>> )
>>
>>   /Gunnar
>>
>>
>>
>>   Gunnar Hellström
>>   Omnitor
>>   gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
>>   +46 708 20 42 88
>>
>>
>>
>>   -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>   Från: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
>>   Datum: 2018-01-10 01:54 (GMT+01:00)
>>   Till: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
>>   Kopia: slim@ietf.org, Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
>>   Rubrik: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
>>
>>   It's in -23, which I've held off uploading, to see if any more
>>   comments come in.
>>
>>   At 4:29 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>
>>>    That would help, thanks,
>>>
>>>>    On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Randall Gellens
>>>>   <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    The wording is intended to permit only one to be specified for
>>>>   asymmertical use cases, it is not intended to disallow both to be
>>>>   specified.  This could be clarified by adding "or both":
>>>>
>>>>      When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>      language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>      stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>>      specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one or both of) the
>>>>      'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    At 3:07 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>    In Section 5.1 of -22, I noted the following sentence:
>>>>>
>>>>>    " When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>>   language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>>   stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>>>   specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one of) the
>>>>>   'hlang- send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes."
>>>>>
>>>>>    [BA] In our previous discussions, we have talked about scenarios
>>>>>   (e.g. speech impaired, but not hearing impaired) in which it is
>>>>>   useful to include both 'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' so as to
>>>>>   accommodate user needs.  Wouldn't such a scenario qualify as
>>>>>   "asymmetrical language use"?  If so, how could the user's needs
>>>>>   be accommodated with only one of the 'hlang-send' or 'hlang-recv'
>>>>>   attributes?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>    SLIM mailing list
>>>>>    SLIM@ietf.org
>>>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    --
>>>>    Randall Gellens
>>>>    Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>>>>    -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>>    There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates,
>>>>    and the glare that obscures.            --James Thurber
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>   --
>>   Randall Gellens
>>   Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>>   -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>   Liberals are trusting and optimistic because
>>   they believe other people are much like themselves.
>>   Conservatives are hostile and fearful because they
>>   believe the same thing.
>
>
>  --
>  Randall Gellens
>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>  Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority,
>  it is time to reform.                         --Mark Twain
>
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-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
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