Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"

Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> Wed, 10 January 2018 22:20 UTC

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To: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
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Den 2018-01-10 kl. 17:20, skrev Randall Gellens:
> In thinking about the issue, I agree with Gunnar that the "or both" is 
> not the correct fix.  I have reworded the sentence to read:
>
>    When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>    language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>    stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>    specify the 'hlang-send' and/or 'hlang-recv' attributes for the
>    direction(s) intended for interactive communication.
>
> I believe this clarifies the usage (which is that the attributes are 
> set for the direction(s) in which interactive communication is intended).

Yes, I think this can be sufficient.

/Gunnar
>
>
> At 7:25 AM -0800 1/10/18, Randall Gellens wrote:
>
>>  The text seems clear to me that it is per media stream.  It says 
>> "each media stream primarily intended for human language communication".
>>
>>  At 12:39 PM +0100 1/10/18, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote:
>>
>>>   No, the proposed change is wrong.
>>>   The reason why it says "one" for the asymmetrical  case is that 
>>> the rule is stated per media only. In the asymmetrical case you have 
>>> hlang-send in one media and hlang-recv in another media.
>>>
>>>   By the discussion now, I think it is evident that a better 
>>> explanation is needed. It is easy to forget that the wording is per 
>>> media.
>>>
>>>   (You can of course imagine a case when you want to offer both 
>>> symmetric and asymmetric use for selection by the answerer, but then 
>>> you also need the possibility to set preference between language in 
>>> different media that we have discussed a lot but not included. )
>>>
>>>   /Gunnar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Gunnar Hellström
>>>   Omnitor
>>>   gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
>>>   +46 708 20 42 88
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>>   Från: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
>>>   Datum: 2018-01-10 01:54 (GMT+01:00)
>>>   Till: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
>>>   Kopia: slim@ietf.org, Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
>>>   Rubrik: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
>>>
>>>   It's in -23, which I've held off uploading, to see if any more
>>>   comments come in.
>>>
>>>   At 4:29 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>>
>>>>    That would help, thanks,
>>>>
>>>>>    On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Randall Gellens
>>>>>   <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>    The wording is intended to permit only one to be specified for
>>>>>   asymmertical use cases, it is not intended to disallow both to be
>>>>>   specified.  This could be clarified by adding "or both":
>>>>>
>>>>>      When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>>      language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>>      stream primarily intended for human language communication 
>>>>> SHOULD
>>>>>      specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one or both 
>>>>> of) the
>>>>>      'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    At 3:07 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>    In Section 5.1 of -22, I noted the following sentence:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    " When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>>>   language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>>>   stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>>>>   specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one of) the
>>>>>>   'hlang- send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    [BA] In our previous discussions, we have talked about scenarios
>>>>>>   (e.g. speech impaired, but not hearing impaired) in which it is
>>>>>>   useful to include both 'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' so as to
>>>>>>   accommodate user needs.  Wouldn't such a scenario qualify as
>>>>>>   "asymmetrical language use"?  If so, how could the user's needs
>>>>>>   be accommodated with only one of the 'hlang-send' or 'hlang-recv'
>>>>>>   attributes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    SLIM mailing list
>>>>>>    SLIM@ietf.org
>>>>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    --
>>>>>    Randall Gellens
>>>>>    Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for 
>>>>> myself only
>>>>>    -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>>>    There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates,
>>>>>    and the glare that obscures.            --James Thurber
>>>>
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    SLIM mailing list
>>>>    SLIM@ietf.org
>>>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Randall Gellens
>>>   Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself 
>>> only
>>>   -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>   Liberals are trusting and optimistic because
>>>   they believe other people are much like themselves.
>>>   Conservatives are hostile and fearful because they
>>>   believe the same thing.
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Randall Gellens
>>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>  Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority,
>>  it is time to reform.                         --Mark Twain
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  SLIM mailing list
>>  SLIM@ietf.org
>>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>
>

-- 
-----------------------------------------
Gunnar Hellström
Omnitor
gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
+46 708 204 288