Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"

Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> Wed, 10 January 2018 16:35 UTC

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To: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
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Den 2018-01-10 kl. 16:25, skrev Randall Gellens:
> The text seems clear to me that it is per media stream.  It says "each 
> media stream primarily intended for human language communication".
Yes, but still we got a review question about the asymmetric case and 
you proposed a rewording that was not needed.

I suggest that we explain better how the asymmetric case is indicated 
across media instead of just saying that it has only one attribute.


Gunar

>
> At 12:39 PM +0100 1/10/18, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote:
>
>>  No, the proposed change is wrong.
>>  The reason why it says "one" for the asymmetrical  case is that the 
>> rule is stated per media only. In the asymmetrical case you have 
>> hlang-send in one media and hlang-recv in another media.
>>
>>  By the discussion now, I think it is evident that a better 
>> explanation is needed. It is easy to forget that the wording is per 
>> media.
>>
>>  (You can of course imagine a case when you want to offer both 
>> symmetric and asymmetric  use for selection by the answerer, but then 
>> you also need the possibility to set preference between language in 
>> different media that we have discussed a lot but not included. )
>>
>>  /Gunnar
>>
>>
>>
>>  Gunnar Hellström
>>  Omnitor
>>  gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
>>  +46 708 20 42 88
>>
>>
>>
>>  -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>  Från: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
>>  Datum: 2018-01-10 01:54 (GMT+01:00)
>>  Till: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
>>  Kopia: slim@ietf.org, Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
>>  Rubrik: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
>>
>>  It's in -23, which I've held off uploading, to see if any more
>>  comments come in.
>>
>>  At 4:29 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>
>>>   That would help, thanks,
>>>
>>>>   On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Randall Gellens
>>>>  <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   The wording is intended to permit only one to be specified for
>>>>  asymmertical use cases, it is not intended to disallow both to be
>>>>  specified.  This could be clarified by adding "or both":
>>>>
>>>>     When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>     language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>     stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>>     specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one or both of) 
>>>> the
>>>>     'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   At 3:07 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   In Section 5.1 of -22, I noted the following sentence:
>>>>>
>>>>>   " When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the
>>>>>  language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media
>>>>>  stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD
>>>>>  specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one of) the
>>>>>  'hlang- send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes."
>>>>>
>>>>>   [BA] In our previous discussions, we have talked about scenarios
>>>>>  (e.g. speech impaired, but not hearing impaired) in which it is
>>>>>  useful to include both 'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' so as to
>>>>>  accommodate user needs.  Wouldn't such a scenario qualify as
>>>>>  "asymmetrical language use"?  If so, how could the user's needs
>>>>>  be accommodated with only one of the 'hlang-send' or 'hlang-recv'
>>>>>  attributes?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>>   SLIM mailing list
>>>>>   SLIM@ietf.org
>>>>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   --
>>>>   Randall Gellens
>>>>   Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for 
>>>> myself only
>>>>   -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>>   There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates,
>>>>   and the glare that obscures.            --James Thurber
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   SLIM mailing list
>>>   SLIM@ietf.org
>>>   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Randall Gellens
>>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
>>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>  Liberals are trusting and optimistic because
>>  they believe other people are much like themselves.
>>  Conservatives are hostile and fearful because they
>>  believe the same thing.
>
>

-- 
-----------------------------------------
Gunnar Hellström
Omnitor
gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
+46 708 204 288