Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> Wed, 10 January 2018 16:35 UTC
Return-Path: <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
X-Original-To: slim@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: slim@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571A312D965 for <slim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:35:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hkozjnQDc_Du for <slim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:35:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from bin-vsp-out-03.atm.binero.net (vsp-unauthed02.binero.net [195.74.38.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5601912D960 for <slim@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:35:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Halon-ID: 4bf2bb2a-f624-11e7-814b-0050569116f7
Authorized-sender: gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se
Received: from [192.168.2.136] (unknown [83.209.156.53]) by bin-vsp-out-03.atm.binero.net (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 4bf2bb2a-f624-11e7-814b-0050569116f7; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:35:41 +0100 (CET)
To: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Cc: slim@ietf.org
References: <tjr6h9ssme6omoled7tb1vo9.1515574168842@email.android.com> <p06240601d67be0d19e11@[99.111.97.136]>
From: Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>
Message-ID: <d8ce3f43-7c60-55b6-7cf0-e2c380c4344c@omnitor.se>
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:35:41 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <p06240601d67be0d19e11@[99.111.97.136]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/slim/uSXqHi5XjFbdbiAQF6MaYYt-jPA>
Subject: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use"
X-BeenThere: slim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Selection of Language for Internet Media <slim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/slim>, <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/slim/>
List-Post: <mailto:slim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim>, <mailto:slim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:35:53 -0000
Den 2018-01-10 kl. 16:25, skrev Randall Gellens: > The text seems clear to me that it is per media stream. It says "each > media stream primarily intended for human language communication". Yes, but still we got a review question about the asymmetric case and you proposed a rewording that was not needed. I suggest that we explain better how the asymmetric case is indicated across media instead of just saying that it has only one attribute. Gunar > > At 12:39 PM +0100 1/10/18, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote: > >> No, the proposed change is wrong. >> The reason why it says "one" for the asymmetrical case is that the >> rule is stated per media only. In the asymmetrical case you have >> hlang-send in one media and hlang-recv in another media. >> >> By the discussion now, I think it is evident that a better >> explanation is needed. It is easy to forget that the wording is per >> media. >> >> (You can of course imagine a case when you want to offer both >> symmetric and asymmetric use for selection by the answerer, but then >> you also need the possibility to set preference between language in >> different media that we have discussed a lot but not included. ) >> >> /Gunnar >> >> >> >> Gunnar Hellström >> Omnitor >> gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se >> +46 708 20 42 88 >> >> >> >> -------- Originalmeddelande -------- >> Från: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> >> Datum: 2018-01-10 01:54 (GMT+01:00) >> Till: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> >> Kopia: slim@ietf.org, Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se> >> Rubrik: Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use" >> >> It's in -23, which I've held off uploading, to see if any more >> comments come in. >> >> At 4:29 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote: >> >>> That would help, thanks, >>> >>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Randall Gellens >>>> <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> The wording is intended to permit only one to be specified for >>>> asymmertical use cases, it is not intended to disallow both to be >>>> specified. This could be clarified by adding "or both": >>>> >>>> When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the >>>> language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media >>>> stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD >>>> specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one or both of) >>>> the >>>> 'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes. >>>> >>>> >>>> At 3:07 PM -0800 1/9/18, Bernard Aboba wrote: >>>> >>>>> In Section 5.1 of -22, I noted the following sentence: >>>>> >>>>> " When placing an emergency call, and in any other case where the >>>>> language cannot be inferred from context, in an offer each media >>>>> stream primarily intended for human language communication SHOULD >>>>> specify both (or for asymmetrical language use, one of) the >>>>> 'hlang- send' and 'hlang-recv' attributes." >>>>> >>>>> [BA] In our previous discussions, we have talked about scenarios >>>>> (e.g. speech impaired, but not hearing impaired) in which it is >>>>> useful to include both 'hlang-send' and 'hlang-recv' so as to >>>>> accommodate user needs. Wouldn't such a scenario qualify as >>>>> "asymmetrical language use"? If so, how could the user's needs >>>>> be accommodated with only one of the 'hlang-send' or 'hlang-recv' >>>>> attributes? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SLIM mailing list >>>>> SLIM@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Randall Gellens >>>> Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for >>>> myself only >>>> -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- >>>> There are two kinds of light--the glow that illuminates, >>>> and the glare that obscures. --James Thurber >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SLIM mailing list >>> SLIM@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim >> >> >> -- >> Randall Gellens >> Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only >> -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- >> Liberals are trusting and optimistic because >> they believe other people are much like themselves. >> Conservatives are hostile and fearful because they >> believe the same thing. > > -- ----------------------------------------- Gunnar Hellström Omnitor gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se +46 708 204 288
- [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language use" Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] Question about "asymmetrical language … Gunnar Hellström