Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests input on SmartGrid

["Akyol, Bora A" <[e-mail]>]

Geoff

It turns out that consumers are not super happy when their dishwasher is cycled off
in the middle of doing the dishes.

HVAC accounts for 46% of average energy use in a residence and most of that use
is shiftable by pre-heating or pre-cooling. 

In the PNNL experiment, the customers got to choose how sensitive they were to price and 
the system took care of the rest.


Bora
PNNL


-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Geoff Mulligan
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:53 PM
To: Chris Lonvick
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests input on SmartGrid

Chris,
  A minor point -- in the PNNL test the only "appliances" that were
controllable were the Thermostat/HVAC and the electic water heater.  The
only other appliance that was part of the project was the electric
dryer, but only an alert was displayed.  It was not actually controlled
by the utility.

There was a separate project called the Grid Friendly Appliance that had
an autonomous "grid sensor" that would watch for frequency fluctuations
and other anomalies and shut off the appliance.  These devices were not
"controlled" by the utility nor was there function based on pricing.

	geoff

 On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 14:39 -0800, Chris Lonvick wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have two examples of interactions between consumers and the grid.
> 
> First, someone explained a French system to me a while ago.
> http://www.edf-bleuciel.fr/accueil/mon-quotidien-avec-bleu-ciel-d-edf/option-tempo-141090.html
> 
> As I understand it, it is a billing option that provides consumers with 
> rates for the next day and night.  The rates are defined as
> Red Day - highest cost
> Red Night
> White Day
> White Night
> Blue Day
> Blue Night - lowest cost
> 
> The color of the day/night is available on the web site and is also 
> transmitted via pulses down the wire.  People who have a meter that 
> understands this can program their circuit breaker boxes to take 
> appropriate actions.  For example, if the following day is going to be 
> Red, then it heats the water in the hot water tank as high as it can go 
> before that time, and tries to not use any more electricity to heat the 
> water until after that time.
> 
> The second is the Pacific Northwest GridWise Testbed Demonstration Project 
> by PNNL.
> http://gridwise.pnl.gov/docs/op_project_final_report_pnnl17167.pdf
> Essentially, consumers were given appliances (washing machine and hot 
> water heater) and a thermostat that could interact with their policies 
> based upon time of day pricing given at 5 minute intervals.  The 
> appliances could also be turned off for intervals by the power company 
> when they were experiencing spikes or other problems.
> 
> Both of these examples show that the grid can give pricing information to 
> consumers and that the consumers can establish policies based upon them as 
> Fred was requesting.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> >
> >>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Baker <[e-mail]> writes:
> >    >> Are there papers which explain why residential SmartGrid service
> >    >> is worthwhile?
> >
> >
> >    Fred> I think it's fair to say that the Smart grid needs some
> >    Fred> consumer input (understatement).
> >
> >    Fred> Where I have a problem, like you, is the idea that I'm going
> >    Fred> to spend my day staring at the electric meter and make random
> >    Fred> changes at random times at the whim of the utility. What makes
> >    Fred> a lot more sense to me is the idea that the electric utility
> >    Fred> will give me (or my electronic proxy) an idea today about
> >    Fred> pricing issues tomorrow, and I can set up policies in
> >    Fred> accordance that intelligent devices in my home will implement.
> >
> > Yes.... your electronic proxy.  i.e. my home automation system.
> > Specifically, *MY* home automation system, not the power companies' system.
> >
> > From what I've heard so far from the grid people, a lot of them have not
> > quite thought this through --- they think they will controlling my
> > appliances, rather than me...
> >
> >    Fred> But imagine that I was told yesterday (or even an hour in
> >    Fred> advance today) that the price would be "low" most of today but
> >    Fred> between the hours of <this> and <that> the price would be
> >    Fred> "high". With 24 hours notice, I could decide to do my laundry
> >    Fred> in the morning, for example, if that was a real issue. With
> >
> > Your laundry can be sitting *in* the machine waiting to be done.
> > Lord knows my laundry spends half it's life in the machine after it's
> > done :-)
> >
> > -- 
> > ]       He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life!           |  firewalls  [
> > ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
> > ] [e-mail] http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
> >   Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE>
> > 	               then sign the petition.
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> >
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