[smartpower-interest] Fwd: NIST_PAP_01-IP_in_Smart_Grid_v.1.0-Oct_30th_2009
Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com> Wed, 17 February 2010 16:25 UTC
Return-Path: <fred@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix)
with ESMTP id 335B328C148 for <smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com>;
Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:25:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -110.484
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.484 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.115,
BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com
[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 613eVENqYyif for
<smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:25:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148])
by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D371C28C0D8 for
<smartpower-interest@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:25:47 -0800 (PST)
Authentication-Results: rtp-iport-1.cisco.com;
dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAKOne0tAZnwN/2dsb2JhbACbAnSlVZgEhF0EgxU
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,491,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="86774402"
Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com
with ESMTP; 17 Feb 2010 16:27:25 +0000
Received: from [129.6.252.251] (rtp-vpn5-236.cisco.com [10.82.232.236]) by
rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1HGRPD0024017 for
<smartpower-interest@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:27:25 GMT
Message-Id: <E2B180E9-F223-4F69-8A00-06CECB5613D7@cisco.com>
From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:27:25 -0500
References: <E68E60A8-3134-4C8D-A203-AC5392CA757D@cisco.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936)
Subject: [smartpower-interest] Fwd:
NIST_PAP_01-IP_in_Smart_Grid_v.1.0-Oct_30th_2009
X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Smart Power Interest <smartpower-interest.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest>,
<mailto:smartpower-interest-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/smartpower-interest>
List-Post: <mailto:smartpower-interest@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:smartpower-interest-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest>,
<mailto:smartpower-interest-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:25:49 -0000
FYI - this is the note I sent NIST. Begin forwarded message: > From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com> > Date: February 17, 2010 10:08:19 AM EST > To: Multiple recipients of list <ipaction@nist.gov> > Subject: NIST_PAP_01-IP_in_Smart_Grid_v.1.0-Oct_30th_2009 > Reply-To: ipaction@nist.gov > > > I have done a quick review on this. I hope you're on the SmartPower-Interest@ietf.org > list; if you are, you have already seen my comment to that list. > > I would have preferred that the document made a stronger statement > about IPv6; the current statement will, I fear, result in utilities > trying to push IPv4 usage in the near term, creating a need to > transition from IPv4 to IPv6 in the relatively near future. > Utilities would do better to go straight to IPv6 up front for > operational reasons, as transition is messy and can be expensive if > it means upgrading firmware with a new image that may not fit in the > target memory system. I would hope that the architecture would make > clear that IPv6 support is mandatory in products deployed in the > Smart Grid, even if the utility deploys IPv4 in the near term, to > overcome those issues. > > I also don't find the statement regarding security adequate. It says > that C12.22's use of AES-128 is fundamental, and overlooks the use > of Suite B technologies that enable IPR-free verifiable public key > authentication, such as one might find in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcgrew-fundamental-ecc > . Symmetric key cryptography has its place, but I think public key > cryptography would be far more scalable. To give you an idea of the > implications, with symmetric key crypto, either every system in a > domain uses the same key (which is not very secure) or every pair of > systems shares a key, which means that central controllers have a > key for each meter that they might speak with. With public key, > every system including the central controller has a single key pair, > public and private, and either encrypts in its own private or its > peer's public key depending on the intent (does this prove that the > message came from a given system or is read by a given system, or > both?) or signs using its own private key. I also didn't see any > attention given to the process of changing keys, which will be an > issue. I further see no attention to threats at the Transport, > Network, or Data Link layers. In an IEEE 802.15.4g network such as > suggested by Zigbee, if I wanted to attack the system, I would > either generate a high power radio signal to drown out communication > or intercept/interdict exchanges on the "wire". I see no attention > to those issues. > > The thing I find most surprising is that it focuses not on TCP/UDP > over IPv4/IPv6, but on the use of the ANSI C12.19 and C12.22 > standards, which are an application, and are in the January > standards document downgraded from "mandatory" to "we really aught > to think about these". I frankly think the industry would be better > served with a NetConf exchange of XML objects using an appropriate > schema, perhaps that suggested by OASYS. > http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
- [smartpower-interest] Fwd: NIST_PAP_01-IP_in_Smar… Fred Baker
- [smartpower-interest] Latest SmartGrid benefits -… Richard Shockey
- [smartpower-interest] [Fwd: Re: NIST_PAP_01-IP_in… Ed Jankiewicz
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [Fwd: Re: NIST_PAP_01-I… Igor Faynberg
- [smartpower-interest] FW: NIST_PAP_01-IP_in_Smart… Koodli, Rajeev