Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests input on SmartGrid
"Akyol, Bora A" <bora@pnl.gov> Tue, 16 February 2010 16:38 UTC
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From: "Akyol, Bora A" <bora@pnl.gov>
To: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>, "andyb@iwl.com" <andyb@iwl.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:39:45 -0800
Thread-Topic: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests input on
SmartGrid
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Cc: "smartpower-interest@ietf.org" <smartpower-interest@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests input on
SmartGrid
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Hi Fred There has been experiments done in a wide area at the Olympic Peninsula in WA, USA. http://www.conference-on-integration.com/pres/34_Pratt.pdf The general thought on this area is that the customer will have a few knobs to manipulate to indicate their sensitivity to energy use. While "smart" appliances may be all the range, it is clear that the most cost savings at least in the US will come from heating and cooling. The challenge is technical but more of a policy issue where the customers need to be clearly made aware that their monthly bill can not be higher than what it would have been based on the old flat rate tariff. Once this is done, the customers are willing to participate and they save money. Regards Bora -----Original Message----- From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:22 AM To: andyb@iwl.com Cc: smartpower-interest@ietf.org Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests input on SmartGrid On Feb 13, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > Are there papers which explain why residential SmartGrid service is > worthwhile? I think it's fair to say that the Smart grid needs some consumer input (understatement). Where I have a problem, like you, is the idea that I'm going to spend my day staring at the electric meter and make random changes at random times at the whim of the utility. What makes a lot more sense to me is the idea that the electric utility will give me (or my electronic proxy) an idea today about pricing issues tomorrow, and I can set up policies in accordance that intelligent devices in my home will implement. BTW, a sudden wide-scale cut-off is bad for the electric utilities too: imagine them sending out such a command, and within the next hertz everyone changing their demand levels. Read RFC 3439 section 2.2.2; the issues and arguments are much the same for the grid as they are for the Internet. But imagine that I was told yesterday (or even an hour in advance today) that the price would be "low" most of today but between the hours of <this> and <that> the price would be "high". With 24 hours notice, I could decide to do my laundry in the morning, for example, if that was a real issue. With even an hour's notice my home energy controller could tell my air conditioner and my refrigerator/freezer to control to a slightly lower temperature for an hour, and then at the magic time (or five minutes before) it goes back to controlling to the normal temperature. The refrigerator/freezer, btw, doesn't run the defrost cycle during the high price interval - it waits until 12 hours later or so. That has much the same effect of randomization without either the square wave for the utilities or the stomach acid for me. Alternatively, one could imagine the air conditioner having two temperature settings, one for when power is cheap and one for when the cost is high. I'll pay extra to keep the house below 90', perhaps, but only cool to 78' when power is cheap. Where this fits into the technical work is that the information models for communications in the AMI (eg between the meter and the utility), we need some way to have the utility able to say "the price between <date/time> and <date/time> is <price> per <unit>". It might look like this: <tarrif_event> <Start ss:Type="DateTime">2010-06-01T13:00:00.000</Start> <Finish ss:Type="DateTime">2010-06-01T16:59:59</Finish> <Price ss:Type="Float">0.50</Price> </tarrif_event> be sent from the utility to the home energy controller aand be interpreted in accordance with the contract with the utility, which probably specifies the local currency as the unit of measure. _______________________________________________ smartpower-interest mailing list smartpower-interest@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest
- [smartpower-interest] Fwd: SGIP Members News>>Sta… Fred Baker
- [smartpower-interest] FYI OSTP requests input on … Richard Shockey
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Andy Bierman
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Gene Gaines
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Andy Bierman
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Davis, Terry L
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Geoff Mulligan
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Andy Bierman
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Fred Baker
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Damir Rajnovic
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Andy Bierman
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Wilhelm Wimmreuter
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… hector
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Andy Bierman
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Richard Shockey
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Andy Bierman
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Richard Shockey
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Wilhelm Wimmreuter
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Akyol, Bora A
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Michael Richardson
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Chris Lonvick
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Geoff Mulligan
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Greg Daley
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Akyol, Bora A
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Damir Rajnovic
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Michael Richardson
- Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OST… Greg Daley