Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP requests inputon SmartGrid

[Damir Rajnovic <[e-mail]>]

Hi Greg,

I think that we should consider things you are saying. People will change
their usage patterns and what used to be low time may not be that low any
more.

We should provide means how price negitiation could be done.

Gaus


On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:50:56PM +1100, Greg Daley wrote:
> Hi Michael and Fred,
> 
> Managing low and high power demand is clearly the driver for the smart
> grid technologies.
> 
> I think a number of issues associated with "low" prices and future
> demand are interesting to the power companies, and potentially
> interesting
> to users as well.
> 
> This is a potentially fraught issue for the power companies, where they 
> will have an idea of demand from predictions, but will also have to take
> into account the additional demand driven by the community of users
> based on price.
> 
> It may be that the cost of generation is higher than that when the 
> advertisement is made (due perhaps to unforseen user demand).  What does
> the power
> company do?  
> 
> 1. Increase the discounted price advertised for 24 hours in the future
> (Bad: reduces uptake)
> 
> 2. Increase the price above the predicted price when metered (Bad: makes
> planning hard)
> 
> 3. Wear the difference in generation cost (which would eventiually lead
> to (1 or 2)).
> 
> What if there was a mechanism whereby devices could bid on the
> discounted power that the
> will use and buy a ticket for it, like the Airlines do with Price-Demand
> systems.  This would
> allow the power companies to regulate how much power was available at a
> particular price level,
> which may be closer to their costs.
> 
> Users could then prepurchase a block of power at the
> discounted/predicted price,
> and if they exceed the purchase profile (outside the prescribed hours,
> exceeding the
> wattage) they would buy excess power at the immediate undiscounted
> price.
> 
> This would allow systems to operate with some automated policy (bid on a
> price up to X, say),
> at the minimal price.
> 
> It would also allow power companies to apply discounts to people who
> purchase blocks of 
> power in advance, even when it is not for a low demand period.  This
> would allow power 
> generators/distributors to perform planning for load.
> 
> This effectively extends the market to the users, where they have a
> choice of how
> they consume power (time of day, alternative generation).
> 
> Is this too far out of interest?
> 
> Greg Daley
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail] 
> > [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of 
> > Michael Richardson
> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 6:29 AM
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] FYI OSTP 
> > requests inputon SmartGrid
> > 
> > 
> > >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Baker <[e-mail]> writes:
> >     >> Are there papers which explain why residential 
> > SmartGrid service
> >     >> is worthwhile?
> > 
> > 
> >     Fred> I think it's fair to say that the Smart grid needs some
> >     Fred> consumer input (understatement).
> > 
> >     Fred> Where I have a problem, like you, is the idea that I'm going
> >     Fred> to spend my day staring at the electric meter and 
> > make random
> >     Fred> changes at random times at the whim of the utility. 
> > What makes
> >     Fred> a lot more sense to me is the idea that the electric utility
> >     Fred> will give me (or my electronic proxy) an idea today about
> >     Fred> pricing issues tomorrow, and I can set up policies in
> >     Fred> accordance that intelligent devices in my home will 
> > implement.
> > 
> > Yes.... your electronic proxy.  i.e. my home automation system.
> > Specifically, *MY* home automation system, not the power 
> > companies' system.
> > 
> > From what I've heard so far from the grid people, a lot of 
> > them have not
> > quite thought this through --- they think they will controlling my
> > appliances, rather than me...
> > 
> >     Fred> But imagine that I was told yesterday (or even an hour in
> >     Fred> advance today) that the price would be "low" most 
> > of today but
> >     Fred> between the hours of <this> and <that> the price would be
> >     Fred> "high". With 24 hours notice, I could decide to do 
> > my laundry
> >     Fred> in the morning, for example, if that was a real issue. With
> > 
> > Your laundry can be sitting *in* the machine waiting to be done.
> > Lord knows my laundry spends half it's life in the machine after it's
> > done :-)

==============
Damir Rajnovic <[e-mail]>om>, PSIRT Incident Manager, Cisco Systems
<http://www.cisco.com/go/psirt>      Telephone: [phone]
200 Longwater Avenue, Green Park, Reading, Berkshire RG2 6GB, GB
==============
There are no insolvable problems. 
The question is can you accept the solution? 

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