Re: [sop] SOP Requirements
Jamal Hadi Salim <hadi@mojatatu.com> Tue, 28 February 2012 17:48 UTC
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From: Jamal Hadi Salim <hadi@mojatatu.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 12:48:29 -0500
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To: "Ashish Dalela (adalela)" <adalela@cisco.com>
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Cc: Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>, sop@ietf.org, Michael Hammer <mphmmr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sop] SOP Requirements
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Hi Ashish, You are probably more familiar with ForCES than i read in between the lines in your response, but i just wanted to clarify to be sure. On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Ashish Dalela (adalela) <adalela@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Jamal, > > The intent of ForCES is decomposition of a network element, and the goal > of SOP is how to integrate network planes into a larger useful system. If you look at ForCES from originally-intended-use, you are right. That is not what i meant since the architecture is more generic. [Example we use it to configure/manage many non-network element specific attributes across disparate NEs.] > When we decompose, the intent is that the decomposed pieces can be built > by anyone. That means a vendor is no longer a NE vendor but a component > vendor. It plays out differently. E.g. if we look outside network, can > we say that ForCES type of protocol could be used to separate the > storage controller from the disk? Technically that is feasible, but the > challenges in getting it done are high. It shouldnt be hard: You would need to describe the disk attributes. The protocol _never_ has to change. > On the other hand, when we are trying to integrate already disparate > systems, we are creating a new level of value. It allows every vendor to > control the value in their product, but opening up a management > interface - similar to how devices have been managed through MIBs. > ForCES allows you to do that. The XML definitions are equivalent to MIBS. The general semantics of operation for forces are unix like: command [path] [args] path and args are specific on the object instance being referenced and command is part of the few verbs defined (SET/GET/DEL etc) > You don't lose anything by supporting a standard MIB, but there is a > value in the network management system if it can manage many diverse > devices (beyond the element manager). The goal of SOP is to meet that > value point, which is addressing some real problems today. > > The complexity of the systems is becoming high, to the point that > configuring / managing / monitoring these systems is becoming harder and > much more expensive. The complexity is specially high for cloud. We need > an approach that reduces the cost of provisioning and monitoring these > islands and build a level of intelligence that sees these islands as > part of a single system. > > SOP is basically service independent protocol. In that respect, we can > compare it to SNMP, SIP, HTTP, SMTP, etc. It has the verbs and > constructs we need for virtual services. The only reason i brought up ForCES is because the verbs you need look similar. >But we don't want to bundle > this with service-dependent things - counterparts of MIBs, Codecs, HTML > or MIME in the earlier cases. If we look at this historically, HTML was > done in W3C and Codecs in various places including ITU. Independent > evolution of these things just makes it easier and more manageable. The > goal is to separate service-independent and service-dependent pieces and > do them separately. > > Many service-dependent pieces already exist - e.g. OVF for virtual > machines done by DMTF or the effort that SNIA is putting to define > virtual storage. My view is that cloud standards will not and cannot > happen in one place. We need the right level of decoupling to allow > different SDOs to do their part, and be able to integrate that. SOP is > just a service-independent vehicle to carry service-dependent > information. So this is the part i may be missing, please help me understand. You want a protocol that is capable of working with all above definitions of a specific service? i.e , if i defined a specific object blah using OVF definition or DMTF definition or a MIB etc, that your protocol will be able to interop between two service providers with two different languages used to define that object? cheers, jamal
- [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Michael Hammer
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Michael Hammer
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Michael Hammer
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Jamal Hadi Salim
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Michael Hammer
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Ashish Dalela (adalela)
- Re: [sop] SOP Requirements Vishwas Manral