Re: [sop] [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services

"Ashish Dalela (adalela)" <> Thu, 16 February 2012 16:09 UTC

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Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:39:45 +0530
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Thread-Topic: [sop] [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services
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From: "Ashish Dalela (adalela)" <>
To: "Ping Pan" <>
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Subject: Re: [sop] [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services
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This isn’t just about the network resources and SOP isn’t only about provisioning network resources. The protocol definition is generalized to support any kind of service – network included.


To your point about changing routes – I agree to that completely. The goal isn’t to replace routing protocols! SOP will use network routes. As you say, it can be used to provision “policies”.


Thanks, Ashish


From: Ping Pan [] 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:21 PM
To: Ashish Dalela (adalela)
Cc: Thomas Nadeau; Monique Morrow (mmorrow); sdnp;;
Subject: Re: [sop] [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services


There are talks on more control from applications to the networks.


IMHO, this is more of a misunderstanding than anything else. 


First, many DC operators have leased the circuits or built the network. They have every right to decide the policy at edge and aggregate traffic onto the network they lease or own. Second, I think that the service providers would have no problem to expedite the BW provisioning process when a customer is asking for more, but no service provider to my best knowledge would allow the customers to alter the routes inside their networks.


So deep-control to me means a cleaner, simpler and faster way to provisioning network resources through a consistent interface.




On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Ashish Dalela (adalela) <> wrote:


Well, yes, one of the use-case is to solve interoperability issues between and across clouds.


I also have heard from folks the need for “deep control” in which a customer outside the cloud wants to tweak or control the infrastructure or application at a low granularity. I think that would be hard, although not impossible, if the mechanisms outside and inside were different – as you will have to create mappings.


That is a topic quite open for discussion.


Thanks, Ashish



From: Ping Pan [] 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:54 PM
To: Ashish Dalela (adalela)
Cc: Thomas Nadeau; Monique Morrow (mmorrow); sdnp;;
Subject: Re: [sop] [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services


Yeah, I have read all the drafts during the DC BoF discussion. In general, this makes sense...


My thinking is that we may not want to standardize the interior DC management, as each vendor has own solution. But at the same time, we need to enable applications and services to ride on top of DC resources. In other words, SDN is in the position to enable Virtual DC's, and create the interface to communicate with networking resources at abstraction level. SDN should not be viewed as the NMS for DC's.


There are a lot of work to be done here, and many parts are moving. Let's work together.





On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Ashish Dalela (adalela) <> wrote:


SOP has the following main goals – 


1.  Fix interoperability issues with cloud services today. Main examples are inter-cloud, hybrid-cloud, and multi-vendor cloud. All cloud services are being enabled through proprietary APIs today, which don’t interoperate. To interoperate across vendors, providers and customers, we need an open standard. Ability to go across administrative domains is a basic requirement.


2.  A clear separation between service-independent and service-dependent pieces in cloud services. SOP is about service-independent pieces. Using SOP, a variety of services could be accessed or advertized. Separation between service-independent and service-dependent pieces makes the scheme extensible to any type of service – current or future.


3.  Create a common scheme for service orchestration that can be used across compute, network, storage, security, applications, etc. A common set of constructs that can be applied to any service type whether it is infrastructure or application.


The above draft describes the problems SOP is aimed to address. This is the “requirements” draft.


The other drafts are: - describes the use-cases and network deployments with the protocol - describes the protocol’s messages - describes service naming, workflow construction, etc. - describes some message flows


Thanks, Ashish



From: Thomas Nadeau [] 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:59 PM
To: Monique Morrow (mmorrow)
Cc: Ping Pan;; sdnp;
Subject: Re: [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services



            Can you please explain what the purpose of SOP is and what its goals are?

People on this list have been also asking how it differs from SDN(p), so it

might be helpful to include that as well. 8)






On Feb 16, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Monique Morrow wrote:



Please join the SOP mailer 

List address:
To subscribe:



On 2/14/12 10:45 PM, "Ping Pan" <> wrote:

Where does OpenStack Quantum fit?

OpenStack Quantum is to have agents in controllers and networking devices for the purpose of better transport. This is well within the goal of SDN.


On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Robert Raszuk <> wrote:

Actually I think those are quite separate problem spaces.

SOP aim to address the requirement of cloud to cloud communication (hybrid or multi-domain). The way I think about this is how to standardize and synchronize OpenStack to OpenStack instrumentation signaling. The next step would be to actually also provide cloud to cloud communication layer. Simple example: How to launch N VMs in various data centers to be part of common resources for customer X.

On the contrary SDNx seems to me of totally different caliber. One way to look at this is what and how we could use APIs exposed by existing network control planes to define and accomplish new network services. I quite do not see current network element control planes nor their APIs as much relevant to cloud services.

My own personal view ;)


I'd like to get some clarification (from anyone who might know or
have an opinion) on how this would interact with/be distinct from any
of the SDNP (or whatever name we decide upon) proposed work. Is this
duplication/people striking out on their own from the nascent SDNP
effort, a companion effort that became clear as we have begun
segmenting the problem space, or something else entirely? Since this
is the first I've heard of the list, I'm thinking it's a separate
effort, but I figured I would raise the topic for discussion.


Wes George

-----Original Message----- From:
[ <> ] On Behalf Of IETF
Secretariat Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:25 PM To: IETF
Announcement list Cc:; Monique Morrow Subject: New
Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for
Cloud Services

A new IETF non-working group email list has been created.

List address: Archive: <>  To subscribe: <> 

Purpose: Cloud services need to interoperate across cloud providers,
service vendors and private/public domains. To enable this
interoperability, there is need for a standard wire-format for
exchanging service information. This mailing lists is for discussing
protocols, data formats and server descriptions formats that allow
cloud services to be discovered and used across private and public
domains. Using these, it would be possible to interoperate diverse
APIs and cloud services across service providers, service vendors and
service users.

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