Re: [sop] -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services

Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Fri, 17 February 2012 08:07 UTC

Return-Path: <robert@raszuk.net>
X-Original-To: sop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: sop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C7C21E801F for <sop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:07:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E5ULZgBjI65J for <sop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:07:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail1310.opentransfer.com (mail1310.opentransfer.com [76.162.254.103]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B2421E8015 for <sop@ietf.org>; Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:07:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 17092 invoked by uid 399); 17 Feb 2012 08:07:34 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.57?) (pbs:m42@mojaklasa.info@83.28.249.110) by mail1310.opentransfer.com with ESMTPM; 17 Feb 2012 08:07:34 -0000
X-Originating-IP: 83.28.249.110
Message-ID: <4F3E0AC6.5040402@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:07:34 +0100
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120208 Thunderbird/10.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Ashish Dalela (adalela)" <adalela@cisco.com>
References: <CB62CCB4.C846D%mmorrow@cisco.com> <470D91CE-5D54-48F8-8889-438DA873A3FA@lucidvision.com> <618BE8B40039924EB9AED233D4A09C5103001E76@XMB-BGL-416.cisco.com> <CAHEV9L3EiCHutLEYHTCbPc0b439k_47mda1y1ONmwthKrQMiYw@mail.gmail.com> <CAA3wLqVpK3pYtdFPiHz7YnBrswNQnOW8R91JXdq-3ndsoL9hkA@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D2F02.3020302@raszuk.net> <CAA3wLqVXujsafyD0MuSUrn8oPdooEtSpJJqxkODQipEBkvGv=A@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D3361.4030802@raszuk.net> <CAA3wLqUVwhNzyB6TWf_H-D6g9oR-Kxeg7MqD3BrJps84Tq_7Xg@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D3BD2.4070102@raszuk.net> <618BE8B40039924EB9AED233D4A09C5103001F5D@XMB-BGL-416.cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <618BE8B40039924EB9AED233D4A09C5103001F5D@XMB-BGL-416.cisco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: sop@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sop] -- Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services
X-BeenThere: sop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
Reply-To: robert@raszuk.net
List-Id: Service Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services <sop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/sop>, <mailto:sop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sop>
List-Post: <mailto:sop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sop>, <mailto:sop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 08:07:37 -0000

Ashish,

I don't need to go past as I am not stuck :) I see how OS community 
progresses and I am also very heavily involved in IETF standardization 
process and I first hand see how it does not.

It is not the question if it would be nice to have a standard cloud to 
cloud communication. In fact I expressed this already in the first mail 
as reply to Wes.

The questions I see are:

- is IETF right place to standardize it

- if IETF does eventually publish something would that be accepted by 
community (in particular open source one)

Best,
R.

> Robert,
>
> You need to go past this argument that OpenStack is healthy and by
> implication IETF is not. Or, what we have proposed here will break
> OpenStack.
>
> This effort is not opposed to any open-source effort, including
> OpenStack. Its goal is to allow open and closed source to interoperate.
> Unless you are mandating that every cloud controller on the planet ought
> to be OpenStack, I don't see how this argument is relevant.
>
> The tradeoff should not be between go open source or you can never
> interoperate. That hasn't worked in the past, and it won't in the case
> of cloud.
>
> Thanks, Ashish
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:55 PM
> To: Michael Hammer
> Cc: Thomas Nadeau; sdnp; Ping Pan; Monique Morrow (mmorrow);
> sop@ietf.org; Ashish Dalela (adalela)
> Subject: Re: [sop] [Sdnp] FW: New Non-WG Mailing List: sop -- Service
> Orchestration and Desciption for Cloud Services
>
>
>> Yeah, having more than one standard is an issue as well.
>> Would hope that we could converge early on one, but the IETF is what
> it is.
>> But that is not an argument against trying, or you might as well shut
>> down any effort.
>
> Actually my only observation here is that openstack community seems to
> be a very health environment where things actually get done well and
> quick (read like IETF was doing in 1980s and 1990s) so I am just trying
> to make sure this effort (or whatever it will be end effect of this
> effort here) will not break it or will be even considered by current
> openstack community.
>
> If someone would ask me I would say that cloud to cloud standardization
> should belong and be done today in openstack community rather then in
> IETF.
>
> Thx,
> R.
> _______________________________________________
> sop mailing list
> sop@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sop
>
>