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charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bas, Thank you for the follow-up. The changes look good to me. Thanks. Cheers, Med De : Bas Westerbaan Envoy=E9 : lundi 14 juillet 2025 16:53 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET Cc : The IESG ; draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-certificates@ietf.org= ; lamps-chairs@ietf.org; spasm@ietf.org; housley@vigilsec.com Objet : Re: Mohamed Boucadair's No Objection on draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-cert= ificates-10: (with COMMENT) On 1 Jul 2025, at 11:28, Mohamed Boucadair via Datatracker > wrote: Mohamed Boucadair has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-certificates-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/handling-= ballot-positions/ for more information about how to handle DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-certificates/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Sean, Panos, Jake, and Bas, Thank you for the work put into this specification. I trust the ASN module and examples were validated. Please find below some comments, fwiw: Thank you for your detailed comments. # NIST Size Mapping The ciphertext values in Table 1 do not match the ones used in Table 3 of FIPS203. Is that intended? Oops, that is indeed an error and has been corrected. # Redundant recommendation We do say in Section 4: NOTE: While the private key can be stored in multiple formats, the seed-only format is RECOMMENDED as it is the most compact representation. then restate in Section 6: When encoding an ML-KEM private key in a OneAsymmetricKey object, any of these three formats may be used, though the seed format is RECOMMENDED for storage efficiency. and then in that same section: NOTE: While the private key can be stored in multiple formats, the seed-only format is RECOMMENDED as it is the most compact representation. Unless there are subtleties I missed, these recommendations are identical to me. Please keep one. Removed one of the three occurrences. The remaining two (one of which isn't= quoted in your mail) are technically different as one recommends the forma= t for use within OneAssymetricKey object and the other for outside. [1] # Notation Please consider making this change in Section 5 OLD: id-alg-ml-kem-* in the SubjectPublicKeyInfo, then keyEncipherment MUST= be NEW: id-alg-ml-kem-* (where * is 512, 768, or 1024 - see Section 3) in the SubjectPublicKeyInfo, then keyEncipherment MUST be Done. [1] # Operational Considerations ## The document includes a good discussion of operational guidance. Can we please reorganize ops content similar to the structure followed recently in draft-ietf-lamps-dilithium-certificates? NEW: 6. Operational Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.1. Private Key Format (OLD: Section 6) 6.2. Private Key Consistency Testing (OLD: Section 8) 6.3. Serialization of Seed Values (OLD: Section 7) Putting "private key format" under operational considerations doesn't seem = right. In dilithium-certs it's also a separate section outside of operation= al considerations. To me grouping the remaining two subsections doesn't fee= l worthwhile. [1] ## On the encoding formats As discussed, e.g., in [1], there might be some variation between the encod= ing formats. I see serialization aspects are discussed in Section 7, but I wond= er whether we can include an explicit statement about the alignment (or misalignment if any) about encoding approaches. The private key format, and any context given in this I-D, has been a hotly= debated topic. Personally, I do not readily see an uncontroversial statem= ent we could add, but I'm open to suggestions. # Misc. ## Applicability: cite celi-wiggers-tls-authkem as an example OLD: To be used in TLS, ML-KEM certificates could only be used as end-entity identity certificates and would require significant updates to the protocol; see [I-D.celi-wiggers-tls-authkem]. NEW: To be used in TLS, ML-KEM certificates could only be used as end-entity identity certificates and would require significant updates to the protocol; see, for example, [I-D.celi-wiggers-tls-authkem]. Done. [1] ## Should this be stated once rather than being repeated for each ASN snipp= et? CURRENT: | NOTE: The above syntax is from [RFC5912] and is compatible with | the 2021 ASN.1 syntax [X680]. See [RFC5280] for the 1988 ASN.1 | syntax. Left only one. [1] ## Please consider adding a citation in Section 4 to point to Appendix B. T= his helpful to understand the values used in various snippets. Done. [1] ## (nit) Missing "and" in Section 4 OLD: When an ML-KEM public key appears outside of a SubjectPublicKeyInfo type in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be encoded as an OCTET STRING by using the ML-KEM-512-PublicKey, ML-KEM- 768-PublicKey, ML-KEM-1024-PublicKey types corresponding to the correct key size. NEW: When an ML-KEM public key appears outside of a SubjectPublicKeyInfo type in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be encoded as an OCTET STRING by using the ML-KEM-512-PublicKey, ML-KEM- 768-PublicKey, and ML-KEM-1024-PublicKey types corresponding to the correct key size. Fixed. [1] ## (nit) an extra "the" in Section 4 OLD: When the ML-KEM private key appears outside of an Asymmetric Key Package in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be encoded using one of the the ML-KEM-PrivateKey CHOICE formats defined in Section 6. NEW: When the ML-KEM private key appears outside of an Asymmetric Key Package in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be encoded using one of the ML-KEM-PrivateKey CHOICE formats defined in Section 6. Fixed. [1] ## (nit) Section 6 OLD: a fixed 64 byte OCTET STRING (66 bytes total with NEW: a fixed 64-byte OCTET STRING (66 bytes total with Fixed. [1] ## (nit) Section 8 OLD: Private Key Consistency Tesing NEW: Private Key Consistency Testing Fixed. [1] ## Section 9 CURRENT: ML-KEM key generation as standardized in [FIPS203] has specific requirements around randomness generation, described in section 3.3, 'Randomness generation'. Please make it explicit this is about 3.3 of FIPS203. Rephrased. [1] Thanks again, Bas [1] https://github.com/lamps-wg/kyber-certificates/pull/129 Thank you. Cheers, Med [1] https://github.com/openssl/openssl/issues/26652 (bullet list with seed-related discussion) ___________________________________________________________________________= _________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_PR0P264MB288501E17A501FEAFE65AED18826APR0P264MB2885FRAP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bas,

 

Thank you for th= e follow-up. The changes look good to me. Thanks.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Bas Westerbaan <bas@wes= terbaan.name>
Envoy=E9 : lundi 14 juillet 2025 16:53
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.= com>
Cc : The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-cer= tificates@ietf.org; lamps-chairs@ietf.org; spasm@ietf.org; housley@vigilsec= .com
Objet : Re: Mohamed Boucadair's No Objection on draft-ietf-lamp= s-kyber-certificates-10: (with COMMENT)

 






On 1 Jul 2025, at 11:28, Mohamed Boucadair via Datat= racker <noreply@ietf.org> wro= te:

 

Mohamed Boucadair has entered the following ballot p= osition for
draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-certificates-10: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/handling-ballot-positions= /
for more information about how to handle DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lamps-kyber-certificates= /



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Sean, Panos, Jake, and Bas,

Thank you for the work put into this specification.

I trust the ASN module and examples were validated.

Please find below some comments, fwiw:

 

Thank you for your detailed comments.




# NIST Size Mapping

The ciphertext values in Table 1 do not match the ones used in Table 3 of FIPS203. Is that intended?

 

Oops, that is indeed an error and has been corrected.



# Redundant recommendation

We do say in Section 4:

  NOTE: While the private key can be stored in multiple formats, = the
  seed-only format is RECOMMENDED as it is the most compact
  representation.

then restate in Section 6:

  When encoding an ML-KEM private key in a OneAsymmetricKey objec= t, any
  of these three formats may be used, though the seed format is   RECOMMENDED for storage efficiency.

and then in that same section:

  NOTE: While the private key can be stored in multiple formats, = the
  seed-only format is RECOMMENDED as it is the most compact
  representation.

Unless there are subtleties I missed, these recommendations are identical t= o
me. Please keep one.

 

Removed one of the three occurrences. The remaining = two (one of which isn’t quoted in your mail) are technically differen= t as one recommends the format for use within OneAssymetricKey object and t= he other for outside. [1]



# Notation

Please consider making this change in Section 5

OLD: id-alg-ml-kem-* in the SubjectPublicKeyInfo, then keyEncipherment MUST= be

NEW: id-alg-ml-kem-* (where * is 512, 768, or 1024 - see Section 3) in the<= br> SubjectPublicKeyInfo, then keyEncipherment MUST be

 

Done. [1]


# Operational Considerations

## The document includes a good discussion of operational guidance. Can we<= br> please reorganize ops content similar to the structure followed recently in=
draft-ietf-lamps-dilithium-certificates?

NEW:
  6.  Operational Considerations  . . . . . . . . . . .= . . . . . .
    6.1. Private Key Format  (OLD: Section 6)
    6.2. Private Key Consistency Testing (OLD: Section = 8)
    6.3. Serialization of Seed Values (OLD: Section 7)<= o:p>

 

Putting “private key format” under opera= tional considerations doesn’t seem right. In dilithium-certs it’= ;s also a separate section outside of operational considerations. To me gro= uping the remaining two subsections doesn’t feel worthwhile. [1]



## On the encoding formats

As discussed, e.g., in [1], there might be some variation between the encod= ing
formats. I see serialization aspects are discussed in Section 7, but I wond= er
whether we can include an explicit statement about the alignment (or
misalignment if any) about encoding approaches.

 

The private key format, and any context given in thi= s I-D, has been a hotly debated topic.  Personally, I do not readily s= ee an uncontroversial statement we could add, but I’m open to suggest= ions.




# Misc.

## Applicability: cite celi-wiggers-tls-authkem as an example

OLD:
  To be used in TLS, ML-KEM certificates
  could only be used as end-entity identity certificates and woul= d
  require significant updates to the protocol; see
  [I-D.celi-wiggers-tls-authkem].

NEW:
  To be used in TLS, ML-KEM certificates
  could only be used as end-entity identity certificates and woul= d
  require significant updates to the protocol; see, for example,<= br>   [I-D.celi-wiggers-tls-authkem].

 

Done. [1]



## Should this be stated once rather than being repe= ated for each ASN snippet?

CURRENT:
     |  NOTE: The above syntax is from [RFC59= 12] and is compatible with
     |  the 2021 ASN.1 syntax [X680].  S= ee [RFC5280] for the 1988 ASN.1
     |  syntax.

 

Left only one. [1]



## Please consider adding a citation in Section 4 to= point to Appendix B. This
helpful to understand the values used in various snippets.

 

Done. [1]

 

## (nit) Missing “and” in Section 4

OLD:
  When an ML-KEM public key appears outside of a SubjectPublicKey= Info
  type in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be enco= ded as
  an OCTET STRING by using the ML-KEM-512-PublicKey, ML-KEM-
  768-PublicKey, ML-KEM-1024-PublicKey types corresponding to the=
  correct key size.

NEW:
  When an ML-KEM public key appears outside of a SubjectPublicKey= Info
  type in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be enco= ded as
  an OCTET STRING by using the ML-KEM-512-PublicKey, ML-KEM-
  768-PublicKey, and ML-KEM-1024-PublicKey types corresponding to= the
  correct key size.

 

Fixed. [1]



## (nit) an extra “the” in Section 4

OLD:
  When the ML-KEM private key appears outside of an Asymmetric Ke= y
  Package in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be e= ncoded
  using one of the the ML-KEM-PrivateKey CHOICE formats defined i= n
  Section 6.

NEW:
  When the ML-KEM private key appears outside of an Asymmetric Ke= y
  Package in an environment that uses ASN.1 encoding, it can be e= ncoded
  using one of the ML-KEM-PrivateKey CHOICE formats defined in
  Section 6.

 

Fixed. [1]




## (nit) Section 6

OLD: a fixed 64 byte OCTET STRING (66 bytes total with

NEW: a fixed 64-byte OCTET STRING (66 bytes total with

 

Fixed. [1]




## (nit) Section 8

OLD: Private Key Consistency Tesing

NEW: Private Key Consistency Testing

 

Fixed. [1]




## Section 9

CURRENT:
  ML-KEM key generation as standardized in [FIPS203] has specific=
  requirements around randomness generation, described in section= 3.3,
  'Randomness generation'.

Please make it explicit this is about 3.3 of FIPS203.

 

Rephrased. [1]

 

Thanks again,

 

 Bas

 




Thank you.

Cheers,
Med

[1] https://git= hub.com/openssl/openssl/issues/26652 (bullet list with
seed-related discussion)


 

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