Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> Tue, 10 July 2018 02:49 UTC
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Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 21:49:03 -0500
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>
Cc: 'The IESG' <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis@ietf.org, 'Russ Housley' <housley@vigilsec.com>, lamps-chairs@ietf.org, spasm@ietf.org
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References: <153079945499.11322.17868589339590763702.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00a901d41484$2494b0f0$6dbe12d0$@augustcellars.com> <20180705213656.GR60996@kduck.kaduk.org> <039a01d417e4$f1228260$d3678720$@augustcellars.com>
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Subject: Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Mon, Jul 09, 2018 at 05:28:33PM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> > > Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 2:37 PM > > To: Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com> > > Cc: 'The IESG' <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis@ietf.org; > 'Russ > > Housley' <housley@vigilsec.com>; lamps-chairs@ietf.org; spasm@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis-10: > > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > On Thu, Jul 05, 2018 at 10:18:04AM -0700, Jim Schaad wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 7:04 AM > > > > To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > > > > Cc: draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis@ietf.org; Russ Housley > > > > <housley@vigilsec.com>; lamps-chairs@ietf.org; housley@vigilsec.com; > > > > spasm@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on > > > > draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > > > draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis-10: Discuss > > > > > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to > > > > all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to > > > > cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Please refer to > > > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lamps-rfc5751-bis/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > > > COMMENT: > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Section 2.7.2 > > > > > > > > With "Algorithms such as RC2"; "Algorithms such as TripleDES", I'm > > > > not sure what to make of "such as" in these statements -- what are > > > > the attributes that would qualify for sufficient similarity to match > > > > the "such as", other than equality? > > > > > > I would probably put DES in the same category as RC2 and Camellia in the > > same category as TripleDES. The first category is basically - this is > better than > > nothing but is not secure. The second category is basically it is not > known to > > be unsecure, but neither is it something that we recommend as using any > > more. (In this case 64-bit blocks vs 128-bit blocks). > > > > My question is more, "how do we expect the reader to make these > > classifications?" You and I can agree on what they should be based on our > > prior experience in the field, but not all readers will share that > background > > information. > > I'll be honest, I don't expect readers who are not part of the world of > cryptographic algorithms to make this type of classification. I expect them > to use the recommendations for what algorithms to use in the document and > leave it at that. I expect that this explains where things are for those > who do know cryptographic algorithms and thus can understand some of the > differences. Okay. (This is just a COMMENT, so I will trust your judgment.) > > > > > > Do we need to cite RFC 6454 for the specific "web origin" concept > > > > (as opposed to just the normal English usage of the word)? > > > > > > At this point in time I don't know that the idea of "web origin" is > > > going to match what is needed for S/MIME. I would prefer to punt this > > > to a new document which addresses the problem directly > > > > How would a reader of this document know to look for this hypothetical new > > document? > > Given that we can't point to this hypothetical document I don't think we > can. I think it will get some publicity when it is finally published. In > the mean time I expect people to slog through the eprint document and need > to go several iterations to understand what is being said their. They talk > about same origin in that document. Okay. -Benjamin
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Jim Schaad
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Benjamin Kaduk
- [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-la… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Jim Schaad
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Jim Schaad
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [lamps] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Jim Schaad