Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Wed, 11 December 2019 00:55 UTC
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:55:32 +0100
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, SPRING WG List <spring@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
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Bravo Joel ! On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 1:49 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > Fernando, I really wish I could agree with you. > But I can't. > > In 8200, it is clear that the meaning fo "Destination Address" for an > IPv6 packet is the value placed in the IPv6 destination address field. > the fact that if we had looked ahead we might have said something > different does not change what words we chose to use. If I am going to > insist (as I have in other contexts) that other folks live with the > words we compromised on in 8200, then I have to live myself with the > words we compromised on in 8200. > > I have concerns about whether PSP is a good design. I am trying to > write a useful note on the topic. (And without such a note, I can not > expect anyone to care about thoughts in my head.) But I can not and > will not claim that PSP violates RFC 8200. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/10/2019 6:16 PM, Fernando Gont wrote: > > Bruno, > > > > On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >> Fernando, > >> > >> Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. > >> More in-line > >> > >>> Bruno, > >>> > >>> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >>> [....]> > >>>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > >>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, > >>>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December > 20. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > >>>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are > >>>> only spring specifics. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically > debated > >>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this > point. > >>>> > >>>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point > and > >>>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into > >>>> parallel independent discussions) > >>> > >>> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at > >>> a place other than the final destination of the packet. > >>> > >>> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: > >>> > >> > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are > not > >> > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's > delivery > >> > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of > nodes, > >> > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address > field > >> > of the IPv6 header. > >>> > >>> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 > >>> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 > >> > >> I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. > > > > Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible > > interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context > > of RFC8200. > > > > RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the > > ambiguity? > > > > > > > >> At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as > expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". > > > > No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > > > > > > > >> Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address > field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. > > > > The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the > > Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > > packet. Where's the ambiguity? > > > > And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to > > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? > > > > > > The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does > > not actually mean that that's the case. > > > > > > > >> I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been > said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > > > > For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication > > of this document. > > > > > > > >> > >>> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is > >>> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of > >>> the packet). > >>> > >>> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and > >>> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec > >>> AH). Please also check: > draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. > >>> > >>> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options > >>> forward: > >>> > >>> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior > >> > >> That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. > >> > >>> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., > >>> re-encap) > >> > >> SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps > is used. > >> We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP. > My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the > (forwarding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to > MPLS PHP. But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. > > > > It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. > > > > > > > > > >>> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it > >>> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming > >>> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on > >>> that path. > >> > >> Not the preferred path as of today. > > > > Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing > > specifications. > > > > > > > >> > >>> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same > >>> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place > other > >>> than the source of the packet or its final destination. > >> > >> It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated > differently. > > > > I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > _______________________________________________ > spring mailing list > spring@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring >
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Voyer, Daniel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority ove… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority… James Guichard
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- [spring] What's going on in SPRING WG? (Re: WGLC … Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Voyer, Daniel