Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))
<bruno.decraene@orange.com> Wed, 11 December 2019 19:48 UTC
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From: bruno.decraene@orange.com
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
CC: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, "int-ads@ietf.org" <int-ads@ietf.org>, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>, rtg-ads <rtg-ads@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Suresh Krishnan <Suresh@kaloom.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:48:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 (Was Re: We don't seem to be following our processes (Re: Network Programming - Penultimate Segment Popping))
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Fernando, > From: Fernando Gont [mailto:fgont@si6networks.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 12:25 AM > > On 10/12/19 08:16, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > > Fernando, > > > >> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Gont > >> Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 1:55 AM > >> > >> On 7/12/19 15:40, Robert Raszuk wrote: > >>> Hi Fernando, > >>> > >>> > >>> The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 > >>> is the final destination of the packet. > >>> > >>> > >>> No. That is incorrect. > >>> > >>> Hint: Please read carefully RFC2473. > >> > >> If you think a document on tunnels rules how IPv6 operates, and its > >> end-to-endianness, then you have a huge problem reading specs. > >> > >> So I will not enter that game, because it would be accepting to be > >> mocked at. > >> > >> I'll wait for a few days for our INT AD's response (Suresh), a response > >> from the spring chairs (if any), and a response from the RTG AD(s). > > > > I'm not sure what response to what question you expect from spring chairs. > > A number og wg participants are letting the chairs and ADs aware that a > wg document contains an outright violation of an Internet Standard That point is noted. But given that a number of wg participants are saying the opposite, we need to go a bit deeper in the discussion. That's what I've tried to initiate and I believe that we have made progress. My understanding is that you are saying that PSP and USP, as defined in [1] and more specifically "Pop the SRH" contradict with [2] and more specifically " Extension headers [...] are not processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery path, until the packet reaches the node [...] identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." More specifically, your point is that " the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header" is to be understood as " final destination node" https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Ku-kKBE-vG5QGdT2DvqLxMQpRik [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8200#section-4 [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-4.16.1 Is there another technical point relating to your " outright violation of an Internet Standard" or is this the only one? > that > spring is not in a position of changing. 6man consensus is written in RFC 8200. I can read it as any other one. Actually you are the one trying to modify that text. But to your point, believe me, I'll be more than happy to give that ball to someone else. E.g. to my AD then IESG and flagging that point in the shepherd report. I'll also monitor your above errata, to see if it's been accepted or rejected. That will typically be a strong input in the balance. > I deem that as a major issue, and I'm curious how you might possible > ignore it, declare consensus, and ship and request publication of this > document. Noted. I'm not ignoring it. Quite the contrary I'm the one engaging the discussion with you in order to understand the real technical point that you want to make. The exercise is not to 'declare consensus' but "rough consensus". Possibly, any position, including yours may be in the rough. 'Request publication' is not publishing the RFC. It's to give the ball to the AD, then IETF last call, then IESG to review beyond the WG. That's typically a way to handle points which are beyond the original WG. --Bruno > > > >>> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Gont > >>> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2019 6:43 PM > >>> The online possible instantiation of "Destination Address" as in RFC8200 is the final destination of the packet. > > > > It appears to me that, at minimum, multiple opinions have been expressed on this point, including from Suresh. So, assuming that by "online" you meant "only", the statement "only possible" seems excessive to me. > > I ask again: please read RFC8200, and in the context of RFC8200, please > tell me what can be in the Destination Address other than the ultimate > destination of the packet. > > > Then, if you cannot come up with a good answer, then you might need to > accept that "Destination Address", in the context of RFC8200, is the > ultimate destination of a packet. > > And, since we are at it, please let me know if IPv6 is and end to end > protocol. And, if it is, how does that e2e-ness work with inserting and > removing EHs on the path to the ultimate destination of a packet. > > Thanks, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. 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- [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Segmen… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… otroan
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… otroan
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Fernando Gont
- [spring] We don't seem to be following our proces… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Enno Rey
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Enno Rey
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Bob Hinden
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Bob Hinden
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… otroan
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- [spring] Separating issues (was Re: We don't seem… Suresh Krishnan
- [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8200 … Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [spring] Separating issues (was Re: We don't … Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] Network Programming - Penultimate Se… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] We don't seem to be following our pr… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Penultimate Segment Popping and RFC8… Fernando Gont
- [spring] Non-final destination address (was Re: P… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [spring] Non-final destination address (was R… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] Non-final destination address (was R… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [spring] Non-final destination address (was R… Fernando Gont