Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08
Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com> Mon, 03 December 2018 15:04 UTC
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From: Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 07:03:40 -0800
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To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
Cc: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com>, Martin Stiemerling <mls.ietf@gmail.com>, SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc@ietf.org, tsv-art@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08
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Great. Thanks to all for driving this to a mutually acceptable outcome. r. On Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 12:07 AM Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote: > Thanks! I cleared my discuss! > > > Am 30.11.2018 um 00:15 schrieb Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com>: > > > > Hi, folks, > > > > Posted a new version. Hopefully, this help closes this document.. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Gaurav > > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 12:32 PM Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com> wrote: > > Great. Thanks Gaurav. > > > > Please ping Mirja once you have posted the new version, and hopefully we > can progress this document. > > > > Cheers, > > r. > > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 11:00 AM Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Rob - > > > > After some discussions with authors - I will remove Sec. 7. Hopefully, > this will close out this informational doc. > > > > Will post a new version. > > > > Cheers > > > > Gaurav > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Nov 2, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com> wrote: > > > >> Gaurav, > >> > >> Can we distill down (to Mirja's question earlier) what this section is > trying to impart? > >> > >> Taking a step back, it looks to me like you basically want to say: > >> • (7.1) since there are explicit label stacks associated with each > candidate path within an ECMP, any TE mechanism inside of the datacentre > can exploit this to target a single one of them, rather than the whole set. > The scope of doing so requires careful consideration of the traffic being > balanced, but SR allows this to be the case. > >> • (7.2) further to 7.1, it's not only for bandwidth-aware TE that > this is the case, it may be for other traffic engineering optimisation > criteria. > >> • (7.3) the ability to allow targeting of traffic means that one > can probe individual links. > >> These points are not unique to the MSDC problem space that you're > discussing. 3.3.1 in 7855 discusses 1+2 IMHO, and OAM is covered in 8403. > Am I missing something? > >> > >> If not, please do seriously consider (as the author group) removing > this section, or simply linking to the other documents with brief > statements on the underlying points. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> r. > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:20 PM Gaurav Dawra <gdawra.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks Alvaro. > >> > >> Mirja, > >> > >> How does this text sound? I am inclined to the discussion over the > phone if we need further discussion :) > >> > >> "This section outlines as an example a possible solution for addressing > flow steering problem using SR. The host which is originating an flow may > share its application observations with a centralized agent by indicating > its bandwidth requirements and the destination for the flow, that enables > the latter to keep up-to-date network bandwidth demand maps for such flows > correlated with the actual utilization of the paths in the network. The > centralized agent may use this information to make an optimal routing > decision. The end host may receive updated steering information from the > centralized agent, published via external mechanisms, of specific paths > with their bandwidth availability on which to steer its flow. > >> > >> For example, an application A..1 is informed about explicit paths to Z > {16006, 16011} which has bandwidth availability such as not to degrade > other flows. The centralized agent may similarly pin flows on other > disjoint explicit paths. Over a period of time, or once the flow is gone > (as reported by the application), then the centralized agent updates the > hosts to revert back to their normal per-flow ECMP based hashing for > load-sharing. The details of how such a solution may be realized is outside > the scope of this document. However, the traffic steering mechanism using > SR allows for solving some of these problems in the data-center." > >> > >> Gaurav > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 12:41 PM Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On October 29, 2018 at 11:34:13 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) ( > ietf@kuehlewind.net) wrote: > >> > >> Hi! > >> > >> FWIW, I agree with Mirja and her proposal below. Not only does it > sound like this Informational document is talking about items that should > be out of scope, but the first paragraph in §7 says that it talks about > "how the problems described above (in section 3) could be solved using the > segment routing concept.” To me, these are examples and (as the text also > mentions) "only parts of the solution”. > >> > >> Let’s please wrap this document up! > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Alvaro. > >> > >> > >>> this still sounds very much like inventing a new mechanism which seem > a bit out of scope for this document. However, after all bandwidth > requirements might not be known or are very dynamic because of congestion > control or adaption mechanism in the application (e.g. adaptive video > traffic), and therefore there it is still the same problem that it is no > reasonable to make decision based on this very dynamic metric. > >>> > >>> The text below sounds like you are rather interested to a) distinguish > elephant from mice flows and b) understand if the elephant flow has a > maximum bandwidth cap (because it's application-limited). These are > different information and might be more useful for your case. However, I > still think having this discussion in this level of details goes beyond the > scope of the document. > >>> > >>> What’s about just saying something like, a central host can collect > per-flow information, either from the host directly or measurement on the > path, and use this information to impact routing. I would, however, also > like to see a note/warning in this context that metrics that are changing > very dynamically should not be used as input for routing decisions.. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> spring mailing list > >> spring@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > _______________________________________________ > > Tsv-art mailing list > > Tsv-art@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art > >
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Martin Stiemerling
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Mirja Kühlewind
- [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-segm… Martin Stiemerling
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Martin Stiemerling
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Martin Stiemerling
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Mirja Kühlewind (IETF)
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Rob Shakir
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Rob Shakir
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Gaurav Dawra
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [spring] [Tsv-art] TSV-ART review of draft-ie… Rob Shakir