Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Wed, 04 March 2020 21:58 UTC
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From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" <ddukes@cisco.com>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/WZ8nzuh6nQ_YtkDbd7o1GjhXzPE>
Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
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I have to second the below from an operator perspective. When a vendor is pushing me to implement a technology – yet not disclosing that implementing it could result in serious network degradation dependent on the boxes I have in the network and their positioning – that exposes me as an operator to a position of either roll back – or forced upgrades and potentially significant cost. Thanks Andrew From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thursday, 5 March 2020 at 00:25 To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" <ddukes@cisco.com> Cc: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com> Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming Darren, could you please comment on the behavioral / deployment implications I believe I identified in my recent email about the use case? It does seem to me that something needs to be said about the implications of the use case. Yes, we do sometimes make allowances in protocol design for deficient but complaint implementations. But we do not pretend that there are not issues when doing so. And we try to identify the needs clearly. Yours, Joel On 3/4/2020 4:21 PM, Darren Dukes (ddukes) wrote: > Hi Ron > > I don’t think you are really asking equipment vendors to provide that > information on this list. That will not happen. > > I’ll simply repeat what has been stated by others on this list. > Products with limited ability to receive and process a packet containing > a RH when SL==0 exist. > PSP provides a means of allowing those products to be used as a PE. > > Thanks > Darren > >> On Mar 4, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Ron Bonica >> <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org >> <mailto:rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >> >> Andy, >> AFAIKS, the only use case PSP is to accommodate SRv6 egress nodes that: >> >> * Can process an SRv6 SID that appears in the IPv6 Destination Address >> * Can process the SRH with Segments Left equal to 0 >> * But cannot process the SRH with Segments Left equal to 0 at high speed >> >> I am not aware that any such device exists. Does anybody know of one? >> Ron >> *From:*Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>> >> *Sent:*Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:28 PM >> *To:*Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> >> *Cc:*Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net >> <mailto:rbonica@juniper.net>>;bruno.decraene@orange.com >> <mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>;spring@ietf.org >> <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com >> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>; Martin Vigoureux >> <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com <mailto:martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>> >> *Subject:*Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming >> MPLS PHP was invented to solve a particular issue with some forwarding >> engines at the time - they couldn't do a final pop followed by an IP >> lookup and forward operation in a single forwarding cycle (it would >> impact forwarding speed by 50% best case). 20 years later, is this >> still an issue at the hardware/firmware level? If so, affected >> implementers should speak up, otherwise there's really no need for PSP. >> Cheers, >> Andy (who was there at the time) >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 3:11 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net >> <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> wrote: >> >> Hi Ron, >> > MPLS PHP is a clear case of de-encapsulation. >> Purely looking at technical aspect that is not true at all. >> MPLS PHP does not remove label stack. MPLS PHP is just used to pop >> last label. After MPLS PHP packets continue with remaining label >> stack to the egress LSR (example L3VPN PE). >> > I don't think that you can compare MPLS PHP with SRv6 PSP >> But I agree with that. Both operations have very little in common >> from packet's standpoint or forwarding apect. Well maybe except >> "penultimate" word :) >> Kind regards, >> R. >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 8:30 PM Ron Bonica >> <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org >> <mailto:40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >> >> Folks, >> >> I don't think that you can compare MPLS PHP with SRv6 PSP. >> MPLS PHP is a clear case of de-encapsulation. We do that all >> the time. In SRv6 PSP, we are removing something from the >> middle of a packet. That is quite a different story. >> >> >> >> Ron >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring> >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QEhtnK3a_SkTtK5jFwY7ANmF22RCkp657bAyNJfcGg1xaI_ewfHQHKp7NIgQ3SpI$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!QEhtnK3a_SkTtK5jFwY7ANmF22RCkp657bAyNJfcGg1xaI_ewfHQHKp7NIgQ3SpI$>> >> Juniper Business Use Only >> >> _______________________________________________ >> spring mailing list >> spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring> > _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring>
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Voyer, Daniel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
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- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority ove… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority… James Guichard
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- [spring] What's going on in SPRING WG? (Re: WGLC … Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Voyer, Daniel