Re: [spring] [**EXTERNAL**] The SPRING WG has placed draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy in state "Candidate for WG Adoption"

> If you want to have a network slice for remote surgery probably you
> need something more reliable, but otherwise it's a good enough solution.

Spot on !

And that is my main point. We are reusing notion of completely different
technology like SONET/SDH containers.

And that is to create only a poor approximation of it assuming very
strong/tight admission control to the entire network, no multicast
which can spoil the game at any replication node and with huge pray and
hope that there is going to be no unplanned and unaccounted traffic in the
underlay.

See till today I still meet folks who believe reading marketing slides that
RSVP-TE (incl. GB) does actual data plane reservation.

Here we are going step further and claim that SONET/SDH can be sold when
running over IP :)

Cheers,
R

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 3:23 PM Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> i had in mind something with the same capabilities/characteristics of
> RSVP-TE.
> The same problem has been addressed for decades by operators using LDP for
> 90% of the traffic and RSVP-TE just for a small portion of the traffic
> (e.g. phone call back in the days).
> With mix of admission control and proper planning it is possible to
> achieve decent performances. If you want to have a network slice for remote
> surgery probably you need something more reliable, but otherwise it's a
> good enough solution.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniele
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 11:27 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Daniele,
>>
>> Could you kindly elaborate on what level of "guaranteed bandwidth" you
>> expect SR to provide ? Especially in the context of _circuit_ emulation ?
>>
>> And even if you build the mechanism to account for bandwidth on a per
>> class of service basis and use controller to push your policies everywhere
>> in the network it is still only done in the control plane.
>>
>> So how are you going to assure that in your default IGP topology there is
>> no traffic of a given class (external or internal or accidental) which
>> would impact the promise of your emulated circuits ?
>>
>> This draft in section 1 makes IMO a very dangerous illusion that you can
>> accomplish analogy to SONET/SDH in IP networks. I do not agree neither that
>> this is the case nor that it should be the case.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 9:15 AM Daniele Ceccarelli <
>> daniele.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>>
>>> the phrase "circuit style" attracted my attention and reviewed the
>>> draft.
>>> I think segment routing should provide good support for proper traffic
>>> engineering (guaranteed bandwidth, recovery, path constraints etc.) hence i
>>> believe the draft should be adopted.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniele
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:13 PM Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In case it is not clear to folks, the chairs are particularly
>>>> itnerested in hearing from folks who are not authors of the document, but
>>>> have opinions on whether this is good work for the WG to undertake.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Joel
>>>> On 5/19/2023 10:11 AM, Andrew Stone (Nokia) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As co-author, also support adoption.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Rokui, Reza" <rrokui@ciena.com> <rrokui@ciena.com>
>>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 7:29 AM
>>>> *To: *IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
>>>> <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>,
>>>> "draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org"
>>>> <draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org>
>>>> <draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org>
>>>> <draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org>,
>>>> "spring-chairs@ietf.org" <spring-chairs@ietf.org>
>>>> <spring-chairs@ietf.org> <spring-chairs@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org"
>>>> <spring@ietf.org> <spring@ietf.org> <spring@ietf.org>, "Rokui, Reza"
>>>> <rrokui@ciena.com> <rrokui@ciena.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [**EXTERNAL**] The SPRING WG has placed
>>>> draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy in state "Candidate for WG Adoption"
>>>> *Resent-From: *<alias-bounces@ietf.org> <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>> *Resent-To: *<andrew.stone@nokia.com> <andrew.stone@nokia.com>,
>>>> <praveen.maheshwari@airtel.com> <praveen.maheshwari@airtel.com>,
>>>> <zali@cisco.com> <zali@cisco.com>, <rrokui@ciena.com>
>>>> <rrokui@ciena.com>, <cschmutz@cisco.com> <cschmutz@cisco.com>
>>>> *Resent-Date: *Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 7:29 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't often get email from rrokui@ciena.com. Learn why this is
>>>> important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *CAUTION:* This is an external email. Please be very careful when
>>>> clicking links or opening attachments. See the URL nok.it/ext for
>>>> additional information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As co-author, I support the adoption.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Reza
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
>>>> <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
>>>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 10:04 AM
>>>> *To: *draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org
>>>> <draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org>
>>>> <draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy@ietf.org>, spring-chairs@ietf.org
>>>> <spring-chairs@ietf.org> <spring-chairs@ietf.org>, spring@ietf.org
>>>> <spring@ietf.org> <spring@ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject: *[**EXTERNAL**] The SPRING WG has placed
>>>> draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy in state "Candidate for WG Adoption"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The SPRING WG has placed draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy in state
>>>> Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Joel Halpern)
>>>>
>>>> The document is available at
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy/__;!!OSsGDw!PrF5MLj2VoK47BuWO76oeewImBaGMafe294qNONXqhmq7i57ixXHdL_zK2azlh1DsID1fgczKQ2sDmGvgCW8AZU$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy/__;!!OSsGDw!PrF5MLj2VoK47BuWO76oeewImBaGMafe294qNONXqhmq7i57ixXHdL_zK2azlh1DsID1fgczKQ2sDmGvgCW8AZU$>
>>>> [datatracker[.]ietf[.]org]
>>>>
>>>> Comment:
>>>> This starts a two week adoption call for the subject draft.  Please
>>>> speak up
>>>> if you support or object to WG adoption.  Two notes: 1) WG adoption is
>>>> the
>>>> start of the process.  The basic question is whether you agree that the
>>>> subject is worth the working group time to work on, and whether this
>>>> represents a good starting point for the work. 2) Please include
>>>> explanation
>>>> for your view.  Yes or no are not very helpful answers, as this is not
>>>> a vote
>>>> but an evaluation of support and concerns. Thank you, Joel (for the WG
>>>> Chairs)
>>>>
>>>> We expect to close this call at the end of May, 2023.
>>>>
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