Re: [spring] When we have multiple proposals addressing the same problem [Re: WG Adoption Call for draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn]

Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> Thu, 04 February 2021 20:26 UTC

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, spring <spring@ietf.org>, "spring-chairs@ietf.org" <spring-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] When we have multiple proposals addressing the same problem [Re: WG Adoption Call for draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn]
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Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:26:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] When we have multiple proposals addressing the same problem [Re: WG Adoption Call for draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn]
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Greg,

Thank you very much for listing all those drafts related to Network Slicing.

But some of the drafts are only describing virtual partitioning of physical networks and methods to guarantee their end to end quality. Those virtual partitioning of one physical networks using tags (MPLS, VLAN, RT, etc.)  have been deployed for decades.

Is there any draft identifying the gaps between virtual partitioning of physical network and end to end Network Slicing?  In 3GPP, a Network Slice includes the capabilities to manage, control and orchestrate the subset of network resources independently from other Network Slices.

Linda Dunbar

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Mirsky
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 4:02 PM
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>om>; spring <spring@ietf.org>rg>; spring-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] When we have multiple proposals addressing the same problem [Re: WG Adoption Call for draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn]

Dear All,
I've edited the subject though left the original line in place to indicate the relationship between threads of discussion.
Several comments already have referenced *bestbar* drafts that, in my understanding of them, propose a different solution to the problem addressed in draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn. The situation when more than a single technical solution being offered is not unusual, probably that is what one can expect at IETF. And I think that "let's ensure that this is solid technical work while allowing the market to decide whether it is better than others" is very reasonable and removes non-technical considerations from a WG AP (or LC). If we use that paradigm, other solutions, for example, *bestbar* drafts, would be considered for adoption and, if adopted, progress on the Standards track. If that is what the WG decides to do, standardize sound technical solutions, no matter how many, then, by all means, I support it. What I feel uneasy about is if adopting one proposal would create a situation preventing standardization of other solutions. The WG faced a similar problem just recently and a design team has been formed with a clear task and deliverables. Perhaps another design team can be formed to work to analyze the problem and proposed solutions? I've attempted to capture what seems to be relevant to the problem:

  *   related to the data plane

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-network-slicing-building-blocks-03<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ali-spring-network-slicing-building-blocks-03&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284047643%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=51SeXlrqKkEPcZlZ%2B1crrkbbd2zmgPmY2ZUlV%2B7tL94%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peng-teas-network-slicing-04<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-peng-teas-network-slicing-04&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284047643%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=Ehe%2B2jm5%2BId2FHzDmsuV6uB%2BCjjSBrY9vq2EHD6Lwhs%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bestbar-teas-ns-packet-01<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-bestbar-teas-ns-packet-01&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284057627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=C2NNOnyu5%2BB9RhZCGdNRcl34KSjPJhhBGtxXLn2%2BNwo%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bestbar-spring-scalable-ns-00<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-bestbar-spring-scalable-ns-00&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284057627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=vgrBT6GHXtqQmmCuzlpxiMG%2BP5lHoVbsKfeC671ZMJ8%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id-00<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id-00&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284067622%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=bou6PkNKBYw2vpWL1Novlh%2B4Ohfa1lbR8EaeMcjUeJk%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dong-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-dong-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284067622%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=lsdX%2FQRDJw8%2BJ%2FDgJtG6mErs0DTQnIm1PeqNZbn5oTI%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-srv6-stateless-slice-id-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-filsfils-spring-srv6-stateless-slice-id-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284077616%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=K3wuvuGj5haU%2F9q3iAYnAV3STPT5myVK2I8Nw4mrciE%3D&reserved=0>

  *   related to the control plane extensions:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zch-lsr-isis-network-slicing-06<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zch-lsr-isis-network-slicing-06&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284087610%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=ftetWylCnasP1DtpOP44r4xwIKa%2B%2BM1AgV6eB69aLho%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo-01<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zhu-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-flexalgo-01&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284087610%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=wnRokkAz33KV3ap%2FZfeygG97xY4fW5o9FjfibQPmQss%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-xie-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284097608%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=GBMS4s8E4vZWfohhaOP%2FTCSS5inBhEtEa3GWWS32AAY%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peng-lsr-flex-algo-l2bundles-05<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-peng-lsr-flex-algo-l2bundles-05&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284117593%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=xJQjtASnEIWrRmkHGU35x9AaKKwHS2sPI%2BN%2FTsNmyeU%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dong-lsr-sr-enhanced-vpn-04<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-dong-lsr-sr-enhanced-vpn-04&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284117593%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=Cy5adYf2aA7MoJHH4xNY7pRSgPYiGlqcxyGeQhYFvQE%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-idr-bgp-ls-transport-slice-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-chen-idr-bgp-ls-transport-slice-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284127587%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=7C%2Bp9XSzzwRT2YFgsNMvZN9cl8arcV0EA1xKUSczgOU%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xie-idr-bgpls-sr-vtn-mt-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-xie-idr-bgpls-sr-vtn-mt-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284127587%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=EAEEZWGVkgdV37PveAU55PUEf6fwxYRwqynFcd8%2FlpU%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhu-idr-bgpls-sr-vtn-flexalgo-00<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-zhu-idr-bgpls-sr-vtn-flexalgo-00&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284137580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=FUAcv2MIb6l%2Fg78Rd9gyMYh5qEK3xmH1DwWFLqa6Q6E%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-idr-bgp-ls-transport-slice-srv6-01<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-chen-idr-bgp-ls-transport-slice-srv6-01&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284137580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=1sZQeDHREsTpGJTsX7FmMXBxyit5Fm6A80f8vDhMqD8%3D&reserved=0>

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dong-idr-bgpls-sr-enhanced-vpn-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-dong-idr-bgpls-sr-enhanced-vpn-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284147571%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=A%2Fyot%2FTvLE6pE8J05OAQokerlrvDC1NpbVEiWuHdf2w%3D&reserved=0>amp;reserved=0>.

Regards,

Greg

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 2:20 PM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:
Thanks, Jim,

I've been following the enhanced VPN work in TEAS and I see it as a key piece of the network slicing work.

It's time that we had some protocol solutions that serve the VPN framework, and this is a suitable starting point. I like that it is not specifying additional protocol widgets but has looked at what we already have and is pointing up ways to use those tools to deliver new function.

I see Robert's point about the resource reservation aspects of traffic engineering applied to an SR network, but this is not an insurmountable problem. The question might be asked, "Why would you want to do that?" but that is a question that (as Yakov would have said) the market can decide. It seems that there are a couple of vendors and a couple of operators who have an interest.

So I think we should adopt this draft and see whether we can turn it into something that has great utility.

Cheers,
Adrian

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of James Guichard
Sent: 27 January 2021 11:47
To: spring@ietf.org<mailto:spring@ietf.org>
Cc: spring-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:spring-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] WG Adoption Call for draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn

Dear WG:

This message starts a 2 week WG adoption call for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dong-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn%2F&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce8ca98ef08ee41f2335708d8c88f585d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637479865284157569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=18n%2FINEjeHbAkRirnct0YAHxP1neXCY386Yrwwanb28%3D&reserved=0> ending February 10th 2021.

After review of the document please indicate support (or not) for WG adoption to the mailing list and if you are willing to work on the document, please state this explicitly. This gives the chairs an indication of the energy level of people in the working group willing to work on this document. Please also provide comments/reasons for your support (or lack thereof) as this is a stronger way to indicate your (non) support as this is not a vote.

Thanks!

Jim, Bruno & Joel



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