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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, Thanks for the review and comments. Please find Inline [AA] From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tuesday, 15 March 2022 at 02:25 To: Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) , dr= aft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org , spring-chairs@ietf.org , ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-= path-tracing-00.txt Hi Ahmed and the Authors, thank you for sharing this information. I've read the draft and have severa= l questions and comments: * It is not clear if you propose a new active measurement protocol or v= iew it as a hybrid method (based on RFC 7799 classification). On one hand, = packets are referred to as probes, but I don't see why the new Hb H option = cannot be applied to a data packet. [AA] While the examples and pseudocode in this draft focuses on the Active = Measurement case, the HbH option can be used indifferently both in probe pa= ckets and data packets. For the PT midpoint view, it does not make any diff= erence if HbH-PT is part of probe packet or data packet. * Resemblance with IOAM is very strong and it seems that the only advan= tage of PT over IOAM seems in the introduction of a Truncated Timestamp IE = for a Midpoint node. If the same IE is added in IOAM, what do you see as t= he benefit of using PT compared to IOAM? [AA] PT and iOAM are tackling the problem from different angles, and as suc= h their architecture differ. * In the draft you describe how to use PT to collect timestamps along a= path. T64 is recorded in PTP 64 bit-long format. What is the format used t= o record a Truncated Timestamp? Also, I couldn't find an explanation why PT= uses only one timestamp format and, for example, does not allow using NTP = 64 bit-long timestamp format. [AA] Path Tracing can work indifferently with PTP 64-bit and NTP 64-bit. Th= e Truncated Timestamp (TTS) is 8-bits selected from the 64-bit timestamp of= the node. The position of selected 8-bits is identified by the TTS Templat= e. * Furthermore, one-way delay measurement requires clock synchronization= . OIj the draft you use two use cases for PT, intercontinental and DC, what= should be the accuracy of the clock synchronization in the domain to ensur= e the PT produces useful measurement data? [AA] PT does not introduce any requirement in terms of clock synchronizatio= n accuracy, hence this is out of the scope of this draft. * As I understand the process of collecting truncated timestamps at a m= idpoint system, it records the value into the HbH IPv6 EH. You suggest that= the time value is "the time at which the packet egress the router". But si= nce a new value is written in the packet, should the checksum be re-calcula= ted? And if that is the case, would that cause a variable delay that affect= s the accuracy of the measurement provided by the PT method? [AA] Could you please clarify which checksum are you referring to? * Related to the above mentioned scenario, I find that IOAM has an adva= ntage compared with the PT method as a process of generating telemetry data= can be separated from transporting that telemetry information for processi= ng. For example, using IOAM Direct Export or Hybrid Two-Step mechanisms. Su= ch separation allows for more accurate measurements and also can be conduct= ed out-of-band relative to the monitored data flow. [AA] The postcard and passport modes are two different ways of collecting p= acket path information from the network. The Path Tracing solution defined = in this draft uses the passport mode. The original challenge of the passpor= t mode is collecting the data from NPU, in the normal packet pipeline, at l= inerate. This challenge has been solved in Path tracing. Thanks! I greatly appreciate your kind consideration of my comments and questions a= nd looking forward to an interesting discussion. Regards, Greg On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:14 AM Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) > wrote: Dear SPRING WG, IPPM WG, We have submitted a new I-D for Path Tracing in SRv6 networks (https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing) to SPRING WG. We are looking for your feedback and comments. Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequence of interfac= e ids. In addition, it provides a record of end-to-end delay, per-hop delay= , and load on each egress interface along the packet delivery path to facil= itate operation of SR networks. Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-octet IPv6 Hop-by-Hop e= xtension header. We will present Path Tracing to the SPRING WG at next IETF (https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/agenda-113-spring-00.txt) Thanks, Ahmed From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Date: Friday, 4 March 2022 at 16:48 To: Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) >, cf(mailer list) >, Mark Yufit >, Pablo Camarillo (pcam= aril) >, Pablo Camarillo (pca= maril) >, Satoru Matsushima <= satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp>, Thomas.Graf = >, Yuanchao Su = > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00= .txt A new version of I-D, draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Pablo Camarillo Garvia and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing Revision: 00 Title: Path Tracing in SRv6 networks Document date: 2022-03-04 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 15 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-filsfils-spring-path-= tracing-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-path= -tracing/ Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spring= -path-tracing Abstract: Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequence of interface ids. In addition, it provides a record of end-to-end delay, per-hop delay, and load on each egress interface along the packet delivery path. Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-bytes IPv6 Hop- by-Hop extension header. Path Tracing supports fine grained timestamp. It has been designed for linerate hardware implementation in the base pipeline. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --_000_PH0PR11MB58296F875F7D8F7837F807ECD4179PH0PR11MB5829namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Greg,

 

Thanks for the review and comments. Please find Inline = ;[AA]

 

From: Greg Mirsky <gre= gimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 15 March 2022 at 02:25
To: Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.iet= f.org>, draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing@ietf.org <draft-filsfils-s= pring-path-tracing@ietf.org>
Cc: spring@ietf.org <spring@ietf.org>, spring-chairs@ietf.org = <spring-chairs@ietf.org>, ippm@ietf.org <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-= spring-path-tracing-00.txt

Hi Ahmed and the Au= thors,

thank you for shari= ng this information. I've read the draft and have several questions an= d comments:

  • It is not clear if you propose a new activ= e measurement protocol or view it as a hybrid method (based on RFC 7799 cla= ssification). On one hand, packets are referred to as probes, but I don't s= ee why the new Hb H option cannot be applied to a data packet.

[AA] While the examples and= pseudocode in this draft focuses on the Active Measurement case, the HbH o= ption can be used indifferently both in probe packets and data packets. For the PT midpoint view, it does not make= any difference if HbH-PT is part of probe packet or data packet.

  • Resemblance with IOAM is very strong and i= t seems that the only advantage of PT over IOAM seems in the introduction o= f a Truncated Timestamp IE  for a Midpoint node. If the same IE is add= ed in IOAM, what do you see as the benefit of using PT compared to IOAM?

[AA] PT and iOAM are tackli= ng the problem from different angles, and as such their architecture differ= .

  • In the draft you describe how to use PT to= collect timestamps along a path. T64 is recorded in PTP 64 bit-long format= . What is the format used to record a Truncated Timestamp? Also, I couldn't= find an explanation why PT uses only one timestamp format and, for example, does not allow using NTP 64 bit-lon= g timestamp format.

[AA] Path Tracing can work = indifferently with PTP 64-bit and NTP 64-bit. The Truncated Timestamp (TTS)= is 8-bits selected from the 64-bit timestamp of the node. The position of selected 8-bits is identified by the TTS Temp= late.

  • Furthermore, one-way delay measurement req= uires clock synchronization. OIj the draft you use two use cases for PT, in= tercontinental and DC, what should be the accuracy of the clock synchroniza= tion in the domain to ensure the PT produces useful measurement data?

[AA] PT does not introduce = any requirement in terms of clock synchronization accuracy, hence this is o= ut of the scope of this draft.

  • As I understand the process of collecting = truncated timestamps at a midpoint system, it records the value into the Hb= H IPv6 EH. You suggest that the time value is "the time at which the p= acket egress the router". But since a new value is written in the packet, should the checksum be re-calculated? And = if that is the case, would that cause a variable delay that affects the acc= uracy of the measurement provided by the PT method?
    • <= /ul>

    [AA] Could you please clari= fy which checksum are you referring to?

    • Related to the above mentioned scenario, I= find that IOAM has an advantage compared with the PT method as a process o= f generating telemetry data can be separated from transporting that telemet= ry information for processing. For example, using IOAM Direct Export or Hybrid Two-Step mechanisms. Such sepa= ration allows for more accurate measurements and also can be conducted out-= of-band relative to the monitored data flow.

    [AA] The postcard and passp= ort modes are two different ways of collecting packet path information from= the network. The Path Tracing solution defined in this draft uses the passport mode. The original challenge of th= e passport mode is collecting the data from NPU, in the normal packet pipel= ine, at linerate. This challenge has been solved in Path tracing.

    Thanks!=

    I greatly appreciat= e your kind consideration of my comments and questions and looking for= ward to an interesting discussion.

     

    Regards,=

Greg

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022= at 6:14 AM Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels=3D40cisco.c= om@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Dear SPRING WG,  IPPM WG,

 

We have submitted a new I-D for P= ath Tracing in SRv6 networks (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils= -spring-path-tracing) to SPRING WG.

 

We are looking for your feedback = and comments.

 

Path Tracing provides a record of= the packet path as a sequence of interface ids. In addition, it provides a= record of end-to-end delay, per-hop delay, and load on each egress interface along the packet delivery path to facili= tate operation of SR networks.

 

Path Tracing allows to trace 14 h= ops with only a 40-octet IPv6 Hop-by-Hop extension header.

 

We will present Path Tracing to t= he SPRING WG at next IETF (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/a= genda-113-spring-00.txt)

 

Thanks,

Ahmed

 

From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <interne= t-drafts@ietf.org&g= t;
Date: Friday, 4 March 2022 at 16:48
To: Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels@ci= sco.com>, cf(mai= ler list) <cf@cisco.com>, Mark Yufit <mark.yufit@broadcom.com>, Pablo Camarillo (pcamar= il) <pcamaril@cisco.com>, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>, Satoru Matsushima= <satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.j= p>, Thomas.Graf <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>, Yuanchao Su <yitai.syc@alibaba-inc.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-path-tra= cing-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Pablo Camarillo Garvia and posted to the=
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-fil= sfils-spring-path-tracing
Revision:       00
Title:          Path Tracing i= n SRv6 networks
Document date:  2022-03-04
Group:          Individual Sub= mission
Pages:          15
URL:            https://ww= w.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing/
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm= l/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing


Abstract:
   Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequenc= e of
   interface ids.  In addition, it provides a record of end-= to-end
   delay, per-hop delay, and load on each egress interface along = the
   packet delivery path.

   Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-bytes IPv6= Hop-
   by-Hop extension header.

   Path Tracing supports fine grained timestamp.  It has bee= n designed
   for linerate hardware implementation in the base pipeline.

            &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =       


The IETF Secretariat

___________________= ____________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo= /ippm

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