Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> Wed, 11 December 2019 00:52 UTC
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From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 19:51:36 -0500
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To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, SPRING WG List <spring@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming <draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
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On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 6:22 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote: > > Bruno, > > On 10/12/19 13:18, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > > Fernando, > > > > Thank you for spelling out your comment, plus on the WGLC thread. > > More in-line > > > >> Bruno, > >> > >> On 5/12/19 12:15, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote: > >> [....]> > >>> This email starts a two weeks Working Group Last Call on > >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming [1]. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please read this document if you haven't read the most recent version, > >>> and send your comments to the SPRING WG list, no later than December 20. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> You may copy the 6MAN WG for IPv6 related comment, but consider not > >>> duplicating emails on the 6MAN mailing list for the comments which are > >>> only spring specifics. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated > >>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this point. > >>> > >>> This may help avoiding that the thread become specific to this point and > >>> that other points get forgotten (or that the thread get converted into > >>> parallel independent discussions) > >> > >> Penultimate Segment Popping describes/specifies the removal of a SRH at > >> a place other than the final destination of the packet. > >> > >> Such behavior violates RFC8200, which specifies: > >> > > > Extension headers (except for the Hop-by-Hop Options header) are not > > > processed, inserted, or deleted by any node along a packet's delivery > > > path, until the packet reaches the node (or each of the set of nodes, > > > in the case of multicast) identified in the Destination Address field > > > of the IPv6 header. > >> > >> Note, of course, that the reference of "Destination Address" in RFC8200 > >> is clearly the final destination of the packet -- for instance, RFC8200 > > > > I hear and can understand your reading of RFC8200. > > Could you please check RFC8200, and tell me what other possible > interpretation of "Destination Address" you might have, in the context > of RFC8200. > > RFC8200 does not even specify any routing header types. SO...where's the > ambiguity? > > > > > At minimum, I think that we can agree that there is another reading, as expressed by other WG participants, and hence I disagree with "of course". > > No, I argue that there is not. IN fact, I argue that folks have been > following that strategy for way too long, and that's quite frustrating. > > > > > Personally, I understand "Destination Address" as "Destination Address field of the IPv6 header." as indicated explicitly in the text quoted. > > The quoted text is from RFC8200. In the context of RFC8200 the > Destination Address can only contain the ultimate destination of the > packet. Where's the ambiguity? > > And let me ask you, as chair, another question, that will lead you to > the same place: is IPv6 and end to end protocol? > > > The fact that I may claim that RFC8200 contains a receipe for BBQ does > not actually mean that that's the case. > > > > > I'm fine with having this clarified with 6MAND chairs and AD. That been said, the Internet AD would have an opportunity to DISCUSS this. > > For the record, I think this is a major issue that should be cleared > before it can be claimed that there is consensus to request publication > of this document. > [ .. and once again / still with no hats ] I'd suggest that *everyone* read RFC7282 - "On Consensus and Humming in the IETF" - being a Pete Resnick document, it is clear, concise and a pleasant read. Unfortunately it's also descriptive, rather than prescriptive, and so people may take away different things from it, but it's *still* a useful read... W > > > > > >> does not specify any routing header type, and hence the meaning is > >> unambiguous (there's no destination other than the final destination of > >> the packet). > >> > >> This is of course in line with IPv6 being and end-to-end protocol, and > >> crucial for other related mechanisms to work as expected (such as IPsec > >> AH). Please also check: draft-smith-6man-in-flight-eh-insertion-harmful. > >> > >> So, in order to proceed with the document, there are multiple options > >> forward: > >> > >> 1) Just remove the corresponding text/behavior > > > > That is indeed one option. But as of today, this is not my assumption. > > > >> 2) Implement a similar mechanism in an RFC8200-compliant manner (e.g., > >> re-encap) > > > > SRH insert is out of scope of this specification. So yes, IPv6 encaps is used. > > We are talking SRH removal. I'm assuming that you are referring to PSP. My understanding is that this function (PSP) is to distribute the (forwarding plane) load between the PSP and the USP. In a way similar to MPLS PHP. But in all cases, this is not about SRH insertion. > > It's about SRH removal, which is also forbiden by RFC8200. > > > > > >> 3) Do the necessary standards work to update RFC8200, such that it > >> allows this sort of behavior, and only ship the network-programming > >> draft for publication when at least 6man has consensus to proceed on > >> that path. > > > > Not the preferred path as of today. > > Yes, it should be evident that it seems the preferred path has been > (starting with EH insertion at the time) to circumvent existing > specifications. > > > > > > >> P.S.: I will go through the document once again... but the same > >> reasoning should be applied to any EH-insertion/removal at a place other > >> than the source of the packet or its final destination. > > > > It looks to me that SRH insertion and SRH removal are to be treated differently. > > I don't see how or why. Both violate the same requirement in RFC8200. > > > Thanks, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-pr… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Tom Herbert
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Voyer, Daniel
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… S Moonesamy
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Warren Kumari
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Satoru Matsushima
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority ove… Mark Smith
- Re: [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority… James Guichard
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] Who is the design ultimate authority… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… bruno.decraene
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Martin Vigoureux
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Andrew Alston
- [spring] What's going on in SPRING WG? (Re: WGLC … Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-networ… Voyer, Daniel