Re: [spring] new draft on segment routing approach to TSN

Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> Fri, 05 March 2021 20:45 UTC

Return-Path: <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
X-Original-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: spring@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0413A0CF4; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 12:45:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.989
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DX8_DJh5yDzI; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 12:45:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr770129.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.77.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFB23A0CD2; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 12:45:49 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=YLYmpZh0HcDj2//Mg9c0ULwyL2kZOccVvyO/VnvSD+STmDemFSBlMnVy36Wa+6/N7UteVnyHbEG7YXGzRuyl7cz/F5IOTKg4FXJ7BVYZIJgYm0+JW34hsLq279RIbTGE9ulyjFNSNIHGRogjL3Bf89p2MWoZ0SCrbqkLisnfxjoxk160oQ0rWHWOp3f5DTAfWEtvroWTYggptfg4G/A5sbj8LRIt7yI33HZRbCm+1IQoOUSUj3+/xLkAuVvDpqVTCAWim7dpVj2tLV+rcOVPihU2I3Qq9S8F3TO1GGAS+6q7frV5VERJxc1yGxgfQtMhmomkXNKlBlAHFbrNsQiI+g==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=3yPq2zUnS7CMo6dAcw7da7ZwULZpmc5cyIaz93Y6nJ4=; b=X+AW9cJCNwYs9R9dysTyqT1g5PvSkLI8OI6SNsMlDkn4NvetyoDTOer1HKaMAwFAwKkSRVvP3IlyHSU2lOgO+TWau98jzHDUfPO9kT30vShKo+NRjJ2A6f51VRM5c47xBibLYItgYD8/V3srLUeuqvczrXcWskmrrDvsE0KUKMyHqt7c6cb1KnY7P0YcJ9c1pkGIk1AlXoilSCLQPpJIddehIIndIoNy8qu8An09AlmrQSrCj1DQDuIm6a0IVyFbfNVeoVvp5s5GHQZPEhilI2wRWOLUqwFqVHErHgVJlJLJkrSQwbjqGG4ukEO8Ga2p8pF1lAc3kQHWxAm2JiCOoA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=futurewei.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=futurewei.com; dkim=pass header.d=futurewei.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=Futurewei.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=3yPq2zUnS7CMo6dAcw7da7ZwULZpmc5cyIaz93Y6nJ4=; b=ovCkKRNtNc4aksKA7Ho2MeWlfxYm8T5UC83kdpuNWSOpJj9IaOTwcqRIvmgjj5gCIoUYjtv9HUDvsI0odrku/x9jrzYypJQUH9TbVwQgshcF+5L3q/SBnooWWiV3BuMhCPgSVGCSftCZ2pfNuNB1YUy4MSc1DGz3P1wf0mPeOmc=
Received: from DM6PR13MB2762.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:13c::13) by DM5PR13MB1243.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:3:30::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3912.9; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 20:45:46 +0000
Received: from DM6PR13MB2762.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd7c:ab34:e7f7:203e]) by DM6PR13MB2762.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd7c:ab34:e7f7:203e%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3912.022; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 20:45:45 +0000
From: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
To: Yaakov Stein <yaakov_s@rad.com>, "detnet@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: new draft on segment routing approach to TSN
Thread-Index: AdcJ5AjgmuXpLt94R1Stsoh/vUDwUAIGpPHg
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 20:45:45 +0000
Message-ID: <DM6PR13MB2762033C6ACECC4A816830AC9A969@DM6PR13MB2762.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM0PR03MB35228092287B38B95D7056F7E5809@AM0PR03MB3522.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR03MB35228092287B38B95D7056F7E5809@AM0PR03MB3522.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: rad.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;rad.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com;
x-originating-ip: [2600:1700:38c4:650:5cb0:1772:354b:2830]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 901fc53f-ffdd-41a3-25a7-08d8e017a6c4
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR13MB1243:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DM5PR13MB1243CC1865DE235878E576649A969@DM5PR13MB1243.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM6PR13MB2762.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(346002)(376002)(396003)(39850400004)(366004)(8936002)(9326002)(52536014)(33656002)(8676002)(83380400001)(66476007)(5660300002)(66556008)(66946007)(55016002)(64756008)(71200400001)(316002)(66446008)(110136005)(166002)(7696005)(76116006)(478600001)(44832011)(186003)(53546011)(6506007)(9686003)(86362001)(2906002)(966005)(66574015); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DM6PR13MB2762033C6ACECC4A816830AC9A969DM6PR13MB2762namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR13MB2762.namprd13.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 901fc53f-ffdd-41a3-25a7-08d8e017a6c4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Mar 2021 20:45:45.8258 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: t3kfJML8F/P5Zfslth7SIGac1L8CbZ4ldzXqVbtNthE1Z/8OZqMnR87ZZiH7rHg4v2BxN/uxN71zDnV1wGtAjQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR13MB1243
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/sTgaKBlKqsZi9GmgULf-Cb0cGrU>
Subject: Re: [spring] new draft on segment routing approach to TSN
X-BeenThere: spring@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Source Packet Routing in NetworkinG \(SPRING\)" <spring.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/spring>, <mailto:spring-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spring/>
List-Post: <mailto:spring@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:spring-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring>, <mailto:spring-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 20:45:51 -0000

Hi Yaakov,

Just got a chance to read your draft. I agree with the comments of the others that this is a very interesting work. I'll just add a few points.


  1.  The use of clock time as deadline requires network synchronization, and accurate measurement of per-link propagation time, which can somehow limit the application scope of this work. Alternatively, one can simply budget a device latency which require a router/switch to obey. In case the overall budget is evenly divided by the hops, a single parameter is enough. Of course, if one wants to customize the budget on each hop (which might be necessary considering the different capability/capacity of each hop), a stack is still needed.
  2.  Mechanism should be provisioned to track where the timing requirement is violated and by how much (e.g., using timestamp or flag). This would be very useful for troubleshooting.
  3.  Recently programmable scheduler research has proposed several primitives such as PIPO and PIEO and provided feasible hardware implementations. The scheme proposed in this draft can easily fit into these primitives.

Best regards,
Haoyu
From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Yaakov Stein
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:14 AM
To: detnet@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
Subject: [spring] new draft on segment routing approach to TSN

All,

I would like to call your attention to a new ID https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-stein-srtsn-00.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-stein-srtsn-00.txt&data=04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C603ba064d1ef4220fa0508d8d7fd0e0b%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637496829160448349%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=Fq7J2ogbHh%2B26TZ2dRc82eUhJkwAOSWdnvR1G68r5p8%3D&reserved=0>
which describes using a stack-based approach (similar to segment routing) to time sensitive networking.
It furthermore proposes combining segment routing with this approach to TSN
resulting in a unified approach to forwarding and scheduling.

The draft is information at this point, since it discusses the concepts and does not yet pin down the precise formats.

Apologies for simultaneously sending to 3 lists,
but I am not sure which WG is the most appropriate for discussions of this topic.

  *   DetNet is most relevant since the whole point is to control end-to-end latency of a time-sensitive flow.
  *   Spring is also directly relevant due to the use of a stack in the header and the combined approach just mentioned.
  *   PCE is relevant to the case of a central server jointly computing an optimal path and local deadline stack.
I'll let the chairs decide where discussions should be held.

Y(J)S