Re: [spring] The SPRING WG has placed draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy in state "Candidate for WG Adoption"

["Christian Schmutzer (cschmutz)" <[e-mail]>]

Robert et al,

This draft does not talk about nor does define mechanisms that “emulate” optical (SONET/SDH, OTN or DWDM) circuits over IP/MPLS. Rather the draft does describe how various SR methods can be used to establish traffic engineered paths across an SR network in order to address requirements such as bidirectional, co-routed paths, end-to-end path-protection and bandwidth guarantees/bookkeeping for delivering P2P (pseudo wire) services.

While some of those characteristics may seem somewhat similar with circuit-switched SONET/SDH, OTN and DWDM networks to some, at the end we are still working with a packet switched IP network as such.

I hope this clarifies the goal of the draft and does address your concerns

Christian

On 26.05.2023, at 13:30, Robert Raszuk <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

Gyan,

If you say that this draft is: "  to provide the same circuit switched 50ms optical bypass available on legacy OTN optical UPSR / BLSR rings"  I have nothing to comment.

- - -

Dear WG,

To summarize, I agree that the draft is well written and quite useful. But as I said earlier it should not be accepted under the current notion of providing circuit switching or as some even say "optical path over IP/MPLS transport".

That notion is simply not technically correct. For one there is zero optical OAM discussed in the document. For second it does nothing to assure proper fabric operation from ingress to egress line cards on any network element. It does not discuss how to signal underlay drops and brownouts to end points. As said earlier it does nothing to prepare for unaccounted traffic presence at dedicated queues etc ... The list goes on and on ...

If authors could rename this draft to say "PCE/SDN based QOS enhanced SR transit" and remove all references to circuit switching or SONET/SDH I would support it's adoption with both hands. But currently as we already have a real life example on this list it is going to be widely misinterpreted. Adding to this possible marketing spin the outcome could be pretty poor for the industry.

Kind regards,
Robert


On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 1:25 AM Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

Robert

The optical control plane ASON/WSON/SSON for that would be the same GMPLS control plane for IP/Optical  used today for TDM CES (circuit emulation services) over IP/MPLS, would now also used for Routed Optical SR-MPLS networks.

The control plane topic is orthogonal to the draft so don’t think it’s relevant, however maybe informative references could be added.

Regards

Gyan

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 5:51 PM Robert Raszuk <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Gyan,

While I do consider some use cases for what the draft is partially describing what you wrote as justification is really the crux of the matter why IMO this work should not be adopted in SPRING nor any other IETF WG.

Namely quote:

"IP based optical networks"

"IP over optical hop by hop routed optical  transport"

etc ...

Please observe that this draft does not provide a control plane to optical transport stitching. Quite contrary it attempts to mimic characteristics of fixed channel transport to stuff it into an IP connection-less paradigm.

Regards,
R.

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 8:27 PM Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

I support adoption.

The draft is well written.

This is very important work for operators migrating from legacy TDM optical to IP based optical networks using Segment Routing.

The requirements is for IP over optical hop by hop routed optical  transport, either  SR-MPLS or SRv6 uSID based networks to provide the same circuit switched 50ms optical bypass available on legacy OTN optical UPSR / BLSR rings, now on SR based IP / Optical networks having the same working and protect make before break MOB scheme for 1:1 protection revertive or non revertive with stateful PCE based hop by hop Co-routed disjoint static SID list for protected path that has QOS LLQ style  bandwidth guarantee for  transport traffic prioritization over other IP traffic in a converged core scenario carrying both IP non transport traffic and IP based optical transport based traffic.

Thank you

Gyan

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 10:04 AM IETF Secretariat <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

The SPRING WG has placed draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy in state
Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Joel Halpern)

The document is available at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schmutzer-spring-cs-sr-policy/

Comment:
This starts a two week adoption call for the subject draft.  Please speak up
if you support or object to WG adoption.  Two notes: 1) WG adoption is the
start of the process.  The basic question is whether you agree that the
subject is worth the working group time to work on, and whether this
represents a good starting point for the work. 2) Please include explanation
for your view.  Yes or no are not very helpful answers, as this is not a vote
but an evaluation of support and concerns. Thank you, Joel (for the WG Chairs)

We expect to close this call at the end of May, 2023.

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Gyan Mishra
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M 301 502-1347


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Gyan Mishra
Network Solutions Architect
Email [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
M 301 502-1347