Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 10 December 2019 19:36 UTC

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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion <draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming <draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 08:36:27 +1300
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Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function
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Bruno,

On 11-Dec-19 06:17, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
> Fernando,
> 
>> From: Fernando Gont [mailto:fernando@gont.com.ar] 
>> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 9:54 PM
>>
>> On 5/9/19 09:46, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>> [....]
>>>>
>>>> Since there have been plenty of attempts to do EH insertion or
>>>> leave the IPv6 standard ambiguous in this respect, and the IETF has
>>>> had consensus that EH insertion is not allowed, I think it would be
>>>> bad, wastefull, tricky, and even dangerous to let a document go
>>>> through the whole publication process, and just rely on the AD to
>>>> keep the "DISCUSS" button pressed.
>>>
>>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming has a normative reference
>>> to [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] 
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-01#section-13.1
>>>
>>>  As such, from a process standpoint, it would not going to be
>>> published before [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] be
>>> itself published as RFC. And from its name, the latter is intended to
>>> be discussed and within control of the 6MAN WG. So I don't think that
>>> we can say that it "just rely on the AD to keep the "DISCUSS" button
>>> pressed."
>>
>> Yes, it is just relying on that.
> 
> Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft has now removed text related to SRH insertion.
> Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion.

For example:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2

Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion?

    Brian

> 
>> A question of you as a chair: does the wg you chair publish documents
>> based on current specs (or at the very least based on  changes that are
>> going to happen in the near term as a result of *existing and proven
>> consensus*), or does spring ship documents that implicitly betting on
>> changes that have no consensus?
> 
> In general, I don't see the benefit of sending a draft which we expect would never progress to RFC. So this would not be my preferred path.
> However, I guess that as always, there are exceptions and I'm not a priori aware of a process forbidding this. As of today, I'd rather not spend time on this hypothetical case.
>  
>> The former is how I expect WGs to operate. The later shows a clear path
>> to a huge pile of documents stuck at IESG review, simply because so
>> later in the process folks found out that the document turns out to
>> violate existing specs. With the risk of an AD pressing "YES", and hence
>> IETF has been circumvented.
> 
> While IESG processing is beyond my paycheck (literally ;-) ), I trust the IESG. And I don't see a reason to doubt a priori.
> And even in this case, there may be a possibly to fetch back the document from the RFC editor queue.
> 
> In short: very hypothetic case and beyond my hat. As of today, I'd propose that we work on the text of the document.
> 
> Thank you,
> --Bruno
>  
>> Thanks,
>> -- 
>> Fernando Gont
>> e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com
>> PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1
>>
>>
>>
> 
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