Re: [Spud] [Stackevo] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea-00.txt

Hi Brian,

Thanks for throwing something together (and it's amusing to see a draft
which declares itself to have been done "a few minutes before" the
deadline).  Two thoughts, just as quick:

First, you make an important observation about the scope of comparison, but
you've buried it a bit.  You note that declarative marking aims "to treat
all markings on packets and flows as relative to other markings on packets
and flows from the same sender".  That should get a much bigger play in the
next version, I think, as it both explains why the incentive to lie is no
longer present and has a huge impact on the system.   Per-sender
comparative state make sense in some contexts (the scheduler in a browser,
based on traffic from tabs, for example), but it gets harder and harder as
you increase the number of senders and in some contexts may simply be too
expensive.  Doing this in contexts where you are already doing packet or
flow state manipulation seems the likely target of this work, and it may be
best to make it more explicit.

The second thought is around reputation.  There's a lot of experience with
reputation systems that suggests that the ability to mint new identities
and the ability to assign reputation are in conflict.  NAT,
DHCP-reassignment, new IPv6 privacy addresses and many other issues make
assigning this reputation to IP-layer addresses problematic.  Doing it at
above that layer with a long-lived cryptographic token has very serious
privacy implications and doing it without one means you can mint an
identifier freely. A reputation that lasts for the duration of the flow
doesn't have these issues, and it may be the best we can do at the moment.

Thanks again for kicking off the discussion,

Ted

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch> wrote:

> Greetings, all,
>
> Shortly before the Monday deadline, I threw together a couple of thoughts
> into a document that might eventually evolve into a more architectural view
> of the vocabulary of the things we can expect to be able to deployably say
> with SPUD (separate from the current discussion on the scope of the tube
> ID). This follows from discussions about trying to keep markings
> declarative.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Thanks, cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > To: "Brian Trammell" <ietf@trammell.ch>, "Brian Trammell" <
> ietf@trammell.ch>
> > Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea-00.txt
> > Date: 9 Mar 2015 18:41:02 CET
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea-00.txt
> > has been successfully submitted by Brian Trammell and posted to the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:         draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea
> > Revision:     00
> > Title:                Thoughts on New Transport Encapsulation Approaches
> > Document date:        2015-03-09
> > Group:                Individual Submission
> > Pages:                6
> > URL:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea-00.txt
> > Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea/
> > Htmlized:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-trammell-stackevo-newtea-00
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >   This document presently consists of a collection of unordered
> >   thoughts about new approaches to using encapsulation in support of
> >   stack evolution and new transport protocol deployment in an
> >   increasingly encrypted Internet.  It aims eventually to enumerate a
> >   set of architectural assumptions for transport evolution based upon
> >   new encapsulations, and discuss limitations on the vocabulary used in
> >   each of these new interfaces necessary to achieve deployment
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
>
>
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